Automatic Gratuity - how is this not illegal?

2/14/2010 Peter "I don't do walls" S. says:

Had the same last night in Yaletown. At the bar, no server no nothin.
I think it was only 15%. We got off easy!

Is this an Olympic cash grab?

2/14/2010 Luisa "wine n' dine" D. says:

That's rather bizarre!  I understand when there's been full disclosure but adding it without warning should be wrong and I believe you'd be well within your rights to refuse to pay it.  They're probably counting on people not noticing or not complaining.

2/14/2010 David "Caribou Keener" L. says:

Anyone here heard about Beans Around the World charging outsiders extra for their coffee during the Olympics? It was until CTV did an investigation that they stopped doing it. Locals would have to present a card showing them they are local so they will get the regular price.

2/14/2010 Peter "I don't do walls" S. says:

Reading a few reviews popping up lately and a few other Yelpers are noticing this. Earls and Cactus Club have  20% tourist tax as well ?

Hmmm. I don't like it.

Just refuse to pay it!

2/14/2010 from Yelp for iPhone Raymond "Roll me over, I'm done" O. says:

I reviewed Hapa Izakaya at Yaletown and although there was disclosure of the 18% auto gratuity and great service I find this act a turn off not only for locals but also for tourists when our city was not practicing this behavior prior. It's bad taste, IMO and sends a wrong message about the city.

2/14/2010 Jenni "Yelp is Not a Singles Bar" O. says:

And that happens if you deduct said 15% to 20%? I have seen menus with it in the small print and utterly disagree with it.

2/15/2010 Johnson "East Van J" C. says:

You have a right to refuse paying the undisclosed auto-gratuity - it's a breech of contract.  That is, unless you were told beforehand or it was printed on the menu.  At least, that's what my law student buddy said - he's visiting during the Olympics and I warned that I saw some Yelp reviews mentioning this hidden-gratuity bullshit.

Honestly, I would ask to speak to the manager, leave zero tip instead and then post a Yelp review.

But definitely a tourist tax - maybe hoping to catch some people off-guard (I had a server friend that use to get away with charging a gratuity and then the client leaving another tip on top - ALWAYS check the bill).

Poor form, Vancouver.  Poor form.

2/15/2010 Anne W. says:

Not only are some restaurants charging an auto-gratuity, some are charging "table fees" and setting minimum order amounts as seen in this article called $960 MINIMUM CHARGE FOR A TABLE OF 8 DURING GAMES, PLUS 20% TIP? http://bit.ly/aHjKtD

I wish I knew which restaurants were doing this so as to avoid them. I think it's probably safest to stay out of downtown core restaurants until the games are over. I don't imagine the restaurants further out could get away with it.

2/15/2010 Evilyn "vaganxsta pranksta" T. says:

I can understand why restaurants do this for parties of 8 or more, since those tables do take up more time, but for one person at a bar??? We are supposed to be welcoming the world, not taking advantage of them!

2/15/2010 Jasmine "red red wine" O. says:

It's also quite ridiculous that you would have to announce to every server/bartender/counter person that you are a vancouverite and not a tourist. What a crock.

2/15/2010 Anita "Sushi Lover" K. says:

It's totally an Olympic cash grab - I've heard about it at a few places, especially in Yaletown where regular customers have to present a card to not get charged more than usual! It's pretty ridiculous!

2/15/2010 Johnson "East Van J" C. says:

Speaking of gouging - anybody checked out the clubs downtown?  Any gouging going on with cover charges/drinks?  I walked around Granville on Saturday and it was madhouse (even more than normal).  I suspected these places are having a field day ripping off tourists.

I know Fortune has loudly proclaimed that they are serving the locals and are not changing their prices for the Games (regular priced cover and drinks).  In fact, it was insane the night after the Opening Ceremonies - I met someone that said they read my Yelp review - sorry, didn't catch/remember your name - I was... celebrating...

2/15/2010 Reena "Maple me up" M. says:

I think the gratuity is because since many people in the world don't practice tipping, or tipping a significant amount, it's just now added in so they can make sure they get it.  However, 20% is ridiculous to auto charge. And furthermore, I more agree with the practices of the other countries of not tipping/tipping a certain smaller amount if it is good service. It's supposed to be a compliment, not an expectation.

2/15/2010 Mark "keeping it random" H. says:

@Johnson I've only been to The Blarney Stone in Gastown and they were charging their regular cover of $10. For a place with live Irish music, I'm happy they aren't ripping off tourists.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that if any special BS automatic gratuity must be clearly stated so on the menu. We're already getting bad press internationally about the olympics, last thing we need is these restaurants to be ripping off tourists.

2/15/2010 Rick "BC Brews" G. says:

If you are on twitter, call out Olympics price gougers with #2010profiteer, shout out the heroes with #2010niceprices.

2/16/2010

This Yelper's account has been closed.

2/16/2010 J C. says:

Vicki you're going all over the place with your post there... first you say its the fault of your boss, not you, then you say your bosses are just making sure that they are taking care of you properly by having auto-grat.

You attack fat people, you attack people for tipping 18% even though 10, 15 - 20 is the standard, you attack rich people, then you attack the locals (vs the "rich tourists") for not having their city for 2 weeks when they suffer just as much as you because of "rich people"... you are really all over the place. (and then "let's help Haiti"?? As if that will make you sound better after cussing about everyone!)

My own experience:
I worked at a restaurant on Granville Island and from I heard, bussers and servers make measly min wages (I got paid $10/hr for prep work, a busser gets $8/hr) but AFTER tips, even a busser gets way more than a food prep person, or cook. Servers no doubt get way more. (tips go up to hundreds per day when its busy (summertime)... I don't remember the exact amounts)

Is it unreasonable? I don't know. I've never been a server to know how demanding it is, but it seems like their tips is far from measly, so it needs to be made clear that your pay per hour is far more than a lot of prep cooks / cooks.

If you find work too punishing then the problem is not pay, its the way you're being treated. If you do just want more pay to compensate for your boss's bad management / stinginess in training new workers, then it should come from them not the customers.

2/16/2010 J C. says:

I should probably mention that I do think they have a tough job. I just mean I don't know from experience.

2/16/2010 Barry M. says:

Vicki, most yelpers are probably more educated than the normal person about what a server goes through and why automatic gratuities exist.
My main issues, were that I was not informed of the gratuity before having to pay it, I wasn't part of a group, and that it was higher than what most gratuities are.  I've been part of large parties before where I paid 15% automatic gratuities after being informed of it and didn't have an issue.
I wouldn't say I received above average service either, I had to flag down a bartender after 10 minutes at the bar to get a menu/order a drink.
I've been to this place before, and this specific gratuity is DEFINITELY an olympics-only issue.

2/16/2010 Rick "BC Brews" G. says:

Have to agree with JC. I used to work in the kitchen while going to university. The servers made all the tips; they would buy the kitchen a couple of pitchers of beer at the end of the night on a busy Friday or Saturday. The prep cooks received nothing. Needless to say, I was working hard to leave the restaurant industry altogether.

A big part of the problem here is that many service industry employers pay lousy wages and offer poor training. It's a competitive industry, so they think the answer is to cut labour costs to the bone. However, if they paid a little better and offered decent training, maybe their service would improve and they would have a large stable of regulars which reduces marketing costs. There may also be less staff turnover and the expense of having to manage a large number of part-timers.

Nevertheless, I find there is a prevalent attitude in the service industry here that customers are their equivalent of a welfare cheque, that a 15% tip or 25¢ per coffee served is their entitlement, regardless of the quality of service. To put this into perspective, go to the US and you generally receive better service because they don't look at a tip that way. Employees are well aware that having a job is dependent on how well they perform and that good performance means a good tip.

You also might consider this issue the other way around. If customers tip more for basic service, that simply allows employers to continue exploiting their staff. The underlying problem will not get addressed because the issue is between employer and employee, just like any other industry.

Luxury or not, Vicki, your job depends on people eating out. If customers feel they are not getting value for money or that they are being ripped off, they will simply not come back. If enough of them feel that way, the restaurant will go out of business and you will be out of a job.

2/16/2010 Mrs "uni-mom" F. says:

I have a feeling some of these bars/restaurants that charge "automatic Olympics gratuity" will stay even after the Olympics is over.  

We're great 20% tippers.  When we have our kid with us, we're even more generous, considering we wipe up the floor and table after he is done, so the servers don't need to worry about that.  

Anyway, we'll be in town this week and will definitely check the bill to see if grat has been automatically added AND it'd be interesting to see just exactly how many servers tell us BEFORE we pay that tip has already been included.

2/16/2010 Louise "Weezerthe1" G. says:

Vicki, your post is downright abusive.

I know that many Yelpers are very familiar with the restaurant industry. You've not listened to the points that people are trying to make about this automatic gratuity.   Maybe one of these days you will gain some insight into how immature it is to jump to conclusions and categorize or label individuals .  Shame on you.  

Any valid point you might have wanted to make is completely lost in your rant.  If this is your idea of dealing with the public; ie if you treated me like this as a server you would get ZERO tip.   If you don't like the industry, consider working in another.  You are a theoretically a grown up.  You have choices.

2/16/2010 Anna "Angel Fish" W. says:

Here is a news I found: http://foobooz.com/200...

"In September 2004, Humberto A. Taveras dined at Soprano's Italian and American Grill in Lake George, N.Y. and left only a 10% tip instead of the 18% gratuity the restaurant required for all groups of six or more. Taveras claimed he saw no notice of the policy, but the restaurant claimed it was listed on the menus. Taveras was arrested and charged with theft of services. However, the prosecutor dropped the charges based on her conclusion that all tips and gratuities are voluntary."

2/16/2010 Anne W. says:

I dont have a problem with auto grats. It saves me a bit of trouble in adding up the bill as long as I know ahead of time. I do, however, have a problem with table minimums. There's no way I am paying one hundred dollars per head for a table. I'm far too poor for that. I'll just eat outside of the core if I'm going out in the next while.

2/16/2010 Roanna "my bark is worse than my bite" z. says:

Vicky is very tired, clearly, and probably has already gone back to work and will not likely be reading any of these responses to her rant.
She probably created her profile simply to have her say that's it.

Pretty funny diet comment, I like that one! I laughed.
She's right about one thing. The restaurants that are charging more should also perhaps send some of their profits to Haiti.

2/16/2010 Alex "Bird is the Word" D. says:

Vicki just to add to he comments. I worked in the service industry for over 10 years and only recently moved in an office environment. The comments about servers getting paid poorly is kind of off point. I work now in a job in an office where I get $14 per hour. Everyone I know who works in the hospitality industry ends up with more than that per hour with tips outside auto gratuity. You talked about only getting $10 on $100 bill so this is one table out ofm any ou were serving that may have only stayed two hours. So say you were serving a minimum of three tables that is $30 on top of your $16 you would have earned during those hours. So that works out at $23hr and yet you are complaining? I know you work hard in hospitality but that is the nature of the industry and I think you might be surprised at how many hours people in a office put in. Having worked in both I think you are very misguided on the "cushy" job you make a cubicle worker to have.
As someone who has managed both restaurants and bars someone who obviously can't handle the pressures of working all day on their feet would probably not last long. If your boos doesn't let you take a toilet break, which I doubt, then they are breaking the law. You are not the only person that works hard and you are not the only person on here who works or has worked in the industry.

2/16/2010 Alex "Bird is the Word" D. says:

@Roanna you are obviously more forgiving that the rest of us:)

2/16/2010 Louise "Weezerthe1" G. says:

@ Roanna. Good call on the new profile thing.  I hadn't noticed that.

Obviously a troll...

2/16/2010 from Yelp for iPhone Raymond "Roll me over, I'm done" O. says:

@Vicki, before you post like a troll try and put your thinking cap on. You give honest restaurants a bad name. There are some of us who were servers while schooling and I made more money with my tips working half a day than my first office job. People chose that career than sitting at a cubicle. The restaurant service clearly isn't for you. It's time to move on to another part time work than end up looking like a fool with your excuses than go on bashing more people and then conjure Haiti by your side.

2/16/2010 Peter "I don't do walls" S. says:

So Vicki, how much are you tipping out to Haiti?

2/16/2010 Tim "Don't look now, but..." S. says:

@Rick - I'm an east-coast American new to Vancouver, but I'm not sure I'd say that Americans expect tips any less than Canadians do. I think it's the same culture, where a standard tip is expected unless (or sometimes even though) service is appallingly bad.

Anyway, this made the Sun this morning:
http://www.vancouversu...

I can't say I'm shocked, though the table minimum rankles. I would have tipped a bartender for food service anyway. If you're working hospitality during the Olympics you may as well get paid for it...

2/16/2010 Jenni "Yelp is Not a Singles Bar" O. says:

Vicki - you know how also works really hard. People in Tim Hortons. And no one tips them and they make minimum wage and they are not signing up for a Yelp account to jump on a Talk thread like a complete nutter with a non-sensical rants. Are you aware that you contridicted yourself several times in your rant.  You're not the first server to get on here and bitch about "not making enough." I know several people whom I went to University with you still work serving tables because they make more than they would in a career job.

No one on here ever said not to tip your waiter. There are several people here that don't agree that a GRATUITY should be automatically tacked on your bill without being advised beforehand.

I hope you don't go to work with the same attitude you came on here with.

2/17/2010 Rick "BC Brews" G. says:

@Tim - Not necessarily saying they don't expect tips, but in my experience in the US, I found people GENERALLY provide better service than here. I live in Oakland, CA for two years, but have only been to the East Coast once. Maybe there's a regional difference?

2/17/2010 Rick "BC Brews" G. says:

On a more positive note, there are many establishments that aren't changing their prices or gratuity policies. I think they deserve to be recognized. You'll find a list of them (and offenders) here: http://www.spiffle.com....

If you have any information to add to the list, please tweet using #2010niceprices or #2010profiteer. This issue is getting more traction. When the real gougers are exposed through collective consumer action, they are forced to back down. Establishments in Salt Lake City adopted an auto-gratuity policy and it backfired on them: http://ow.ly/18kQO.

2/17/2010 Kat "in dire need of a printervention" F. says:

Automatic gratuity makes me really, really mad. What's worse, some exceptionally touristy destinations still leave a line on the bill where you can leave a tip...so a double tip...in the hopes that you didn't see the automatically included one! Infuriating!

2/17/2010 Natasha "romanticist" L. says:

Vicki,  you should join those vandalizing protesters, you seem to fit right in, and you can use the coins that you get from tips!!!

2/17/2010 Evilyn "vaganxsta pranksta" T. says:

I went to the Morrissey last night and 18% was added to my bill, no mention of it from the waitress and no sign of it on the bill. No impressed. I wrote a review about it http://www.yelp.ca/biz...
I won't be back there until the Olympics are over.

2/17/2010 Chris E. says:

Restaurants and Waiters should always mention BEFORE the guests order whether or not there is a Auto-gratuity added to the bill. That's all there is too it. It's a shame that no one seems to be doing it during these Olympics. Although I wouldn't necessarily say that it's an "Olympic Tax" as the money ends up going straight to the server and not to the Restaurant. It may sound bad but the auto-grat is actually the Restaurants "looking out" for their staff as it is well known in the serving world that foreigners often don't tip (sorry, that's just a fact, don't rip me apart on that one.)

As to tipping in general... If you look into the history of "tips" you might find the acronym "To Ensure Proper Service". They say it used to be extended to the Waiter/Waitress before the meal to... well, ensure proper service. Either way now we "tip" after the meal as a tip of the hat (pardon the pun) to the server for good service. Like it or not, it's just one of the customs we have here in North America. I don't know, maybe if we didn't tip, everything would cost a lot more and Servers would get paid a lot more... or maybe not. But I do know that tips are what put me through University, so it can't be ALL bad...

In any case, I'm not trying to defend the Restaurant industry or anything. If they want to push an auto-grat on people, they should let them know ahead of time and then let them decide if they want to stay. I just think that the topic if tipping in General perhaps is not such a bad thing.

2/18/2010 Larry "Mojofoodie" L. says:

Wow! What I just read had so much drama, excitement, action, comedy!  It was like an episode of 24 at the Olympics.

I too would have to agree with the majority here.  I would be infuriated if I wasn't told in advance that I was going to be charged a tip of 20%.  I simply wouldn't pay for it.  I think the restaurants here are missing one big point.  Who is going to support them after the olympics?  The locals!!! Yes!  Will I come back after some stupid trick like that?  No.  Will I feel like I want to bash them publicly and embarrass them?  Yes, but I wouldn't. I'd just think of little wevil things I could do and then laugh it off.  (typo's included  free of charge)

2/18/2010 Luisa "wine n' dine" D. says:

I went out for lunch today and found out AFTER the bill came that there was an 18% grat. added even though there were only 2 of us.  The service was not good enough to warrant 15%.  I wrote about it here http://www.yelp.ca/biz...
I have no problem tipping 20% (voluntarily) for good service.  I worked as a waitress/bartender to put myself through university and I know what it's like to get stiffed on a tip: It sucks but it happens.  I hope Vicki uses spell check at school or she'll never get out of the job that's clearly making her bitter.

2/18/2010 Johnson "East Van J" C. says:

I have not been dinged auto-gratuity by Elephant & Castle (on Saturday night - but some people reported they have on Rick's link - maybe it dependent on the server?) or Smiley's Public House.

@Tim:  Thank you for providing a well-thought out response from someone from the industry.  The topic of the N. America custom of tip was debated to death in another thread here (http://www.yelp.ca/top...) - my only issue is why am I tipping for someone to do their job?  I don't tip doctors for healing me and I don't tip police/customs officers for doing their job (not in Canada, anyways).  I've had the best service in countries where tipping is not the custom.

Like Larry David and as you suggested, I would *gladly* 'pay more' for food if the server's share was included and it meant they were getting a fair wage - so I don't have to put up with the tip calculation nonsense.  Just don't hide it.

2/18/2010 Reena "Maple me up" M. says:

@ Johnson - I agree wholeheartedly!

2/19/2010 from Yelp for iPhone Larry "Mojofoodie" L. says:

Have any of you been able to dispute this unfair tax?????  I sure would. Just to make a point of what I feel is simply a cash grab during the Olympics.  These places in the short term will have to fess up to this post Olympics.

2/20/2010 Hubert "Hub" F. says:

I complained to two places where I had been before that applied the gratuity, one of them having even more jacked up the price, a place I was going sort of weekly.

I can always excuse a crappy service, a crappy day where things didn't go well. Not a voluntary gouging like they did. After all, most of the business they get year long is from local.
I think I'm gonna follow Vicky advice and no longer tip (which means no longer go to these places). If they suffer, too bad for them. That's the only action that will make them sensitive to the bad practice.

And as a side note, I have updated review by reducing the number of stars (and saying WHY and how much I removed) as well as new ONE star reviews, explaining why I gave ONE.

2/20/2010 Luisa "wine n' dine" D. says:

Funnily enough I went to The Refinery tonight.  Their menu states they'll add an 18% gratuity but it wasn't on the bill in the end.  Wonderful service, fun atmosphere, etc.  They must have it on their menu as a safety net.

2/21/2010 Mac D. says:

I wanted to give a few reviews of the restaurants around Yaletown price gouging including the auto gratuity. My wife and I live in Yaletown and go out for dinner several times a week. Here is what I have found:

Earls Yaletown - adding 20% auto gratuity without letting anyone know. It also seems the prices on the menu are more expensive. They charged me $12 for a bottle of beer on the patio! A tuna sushi roll is going for $14.50!

Society (Glowbal Group) - adding 20% auto grat but they at least told us upon bringing the bill even stamping it as gratuity included. They did require us to make a deposit on credit card for a reservation and at first we were told we had to get the $59 per person set menu in order to make a reservation. After objecting they let us reserve with only a deposit. I am not sure if the menu was different as it was my first time there but the $59 set menu is a joke.

Hurricane Grill - Adding a 15% auto gratuity and menu price increases of up to 50%! For example a steak sandwich went from a reasonable $13 to a rip off $19.

The Keg Yaletown - Same menu and no auto gratuity for tables under 6 people (which is reasonable IMO). Nice job Keg!

Section 3 - New menu and higher prices and 20% auto gratuity. I was ordering from the bar and paying cash adding tips as normal and the bar tender didn't mention the tip was included and he gladly accepted the tips on top of the 20% I was not aware of being charged. I realized the 20% auto gratuity when we sat down for dinner later.

Chamber - We noticed the wine by the glass prices went up 20%. A 18% auto gratuity was added but the server told us upon bringing the bill and crossed off the tip section.

From my perspective I will not forget the worst offenders. I really have a problem when you go into a restaurant expecting what you have always had (fair prices and optional tipping % based on service) and get gouged. It is kind of a bait and switch. I will not forget the places that have taken advantage of the Olympics. Earls is insulting our intelligence by claiming extra costs for night deliveries, etc. Come on, everyone knows the volume more than takes care of any negligible costs incurred. And regarding tourists not tipping in my estimation 80% plus of the people in restaurants are Canadian and American. The auto gratuity is not required and 18% plus is a joke. The servers would have done better with the extra volume even if 20% of the customers left no tip.

When the tips go back to normal I will just tip less (say 10%) instead of the usual 15% to 20%. I will also likely never go back to some of the worst offenders at all. With all the restaurants crying foul about the upcoming HST hurting business they have just proven by their own greed if the government doesn't charge the tax they will put their own tax on and call it a service charge. I support the HST at least it will support social services!

2/22/2010 Rick "BC Brews" G. says:

Beware of the HST! It's a tax shift from business onto us: http://thetyee.ca/Opin... which means we will pay more to make up the difference. Otherwise, there won't be money to pay for social services and they will try to privatize them.

As for auto-gratuity, above 15% is a scam. Nowhere that I have been in Europe or Asia, where they have service charges automatically added to the bill, charge more than this. They are also very clear and up-front about it.

2/22/2010 Roanna "my bark is worse than my bite" z. says:

These are bitter pills indeed, but as usual, people will swallow. Tapping on the key board has little affect to change. A democracy requires action.

2/22/2010 Jasmine "red red wine" O. says:

@Vicki- It's illegal not to give your employee a break. Especially for the washroom.

2/22/2010 Anne W. says:

An interesting (and mathematical!) take on the auto grats and the "house take".

http://www.spiffle.com...

2/22/2010 Dingle B. says:

Yeah its bullshit... but pretty funny too.  It's just like going to a seasonal tourist town at the beach, where prices double between 1jun and labour day.

On a side note, I've noticed 90% of the people on this forum complaining are the pretty long haired female types.  I'm just a stupid american but dont most of you get your bits and kibbles paid for by the boyfriend?  Life's too short.  Just sayin.

2/22/2010 Roanna "my bark is worse than my bite" z. says:

@Dingle. (berry) what year are you living in?

2/22/2010 Gina "Argentina" I. says:

This is why I mostly eat at home.

2/23/2010 Bobby B. says:

A little history, tipping in BC has traditionally been 10-15%. Over the last 10 years it has increased to the current 15-20% highlighted with the Olympic Auto-grad fiasco. So what happened 10 years ago to bring the tipping from a high end of 15% to now 20%.  The dirty little secret is the management and house tip-out. In some (and a growing number) establishments servers and bartenders are forced by their employers to tip out management and the house (usually 2-4% of your sales). How do they get away with this you ask, simple, the tip pool. Tip pooling is a legal practice in BC and what these establishments are doing is requiring staff to tip out, example 6% of their sales and then the house and/or management will take a 2-4% cut of that then disperse the rest to the other support staff (bussers, porters, cooks, hostesses, etc). It used to be that you only tipped-out the people who directly help you provide the service to the customer. A hostess seats your guests, a bartender makes your drinks and the kitchen makes the food, so you tip them out a percentage of your sales cause they helped you.

2/23/2010 Luisa "wine n' dine" D. says:

"On a side note, I've noticed 90% of the people on this forum complaining are the pretty long haired female types.  I'm just a stupid american but dont most of you get your bits and kibbles paid for by the boyfriend?  Life's too short.  Just sayin." - O.M.G.!!!!  Life's too short to really care about idiotic comments like this.  But really??  I feel sorry for the American women that have to deal with this dude regardless of whether he's picking up the tab.  Cheque please...

2/23/2010 Evilyn "vaganxsta pranksta" T. says:

I may be pretty and long haired, but my BF surely does not pick up my tab. I can drink with the best of them, so I don't expect him to have to fork over $ for my bill when it's just as hefty as his. Get with the program Americano, Canadian women are independant AND beautiful, and we are gonne kick some gold medal USA ass in hockey!

2/23/2010 Alex "Bird is the Word" D. says:

Baccardi B please take your rants elsewhere. Firstly you are not the only person who works or has worked in service so hold off on the condecending history lesson. If you are in a venue where tips are going to the house and you don't like it then leave it is always your choice. I am sick of hearing servers whine about how they are so hard done by. Your dishwasher works harder than you and gets paid less, your kitchen staff are often better trained and get paid less, your bussers work harder and get paid less. It is far from the worst paying job in Vancouver and to be honest on an international scale service here is not towering above the rest. Ok that is my rant against a rant done.

2/23/2010 Roanna "my bark is worse than my bite" z. says:

U.S. trolls are abundant these Olympic days. :- /
I say we should try to ignore these faux members. They all have return tickets (back under the rocks where they came from).
http://en.wikipedia.or...

2/23/2010 David "Caribou Keener" L. says:

Places such as Germany, people don't tip their servers. Servers in places like Germany make a decent hourly wage, so they don't need to be tipped. When you get a lot of out of towners in Vancouver, there will be people not tipping because they don't know the Canadian customs of tipping servers.  So, it's to protect the wages of the servers.  I heard that most restaurants in Downtown will remove it once the Olympics are over. I agree  that 15-20% taxes for no real service is going way overboard.  

CTV did a story about Beans Around the World coffee shop in Yaletown. They charged out of towners 20% more for a cup of coffee.  Apparently, locals will get a card saying they're local so they can pay the regular price.  Once the story was aired on CTV, Beans Around the World stopped overcharging everyone for coffee.

What really should happen are the tourist operators should inform about the tipping information in Canadian restaurants.  I know people are boycotting restaurants because of this situation.

2/23/2010 Rick "BC Brews" G. says:

David L., in Western Europe, the service charge is never over 15%. So for an establishment in Vancouver to charge more than that when their staff are not trained or paid to the degree that they are in Europe, I think it is gouging.

Establishments like to say their costs are going up to handle the additional business, so they have to charge more. This is a straw man. Don't forget, their sales are also going up.

Trying to protect their servers from non-tippers? The majority of Olympic visitors are from North America where this is not the custom. They aren't going to be happy having an 18%+ auto-grat sprung on them without warning when they had to wait to get served and get sub-par service because it's so busy. I've been to places just on St. Patrick's Day where you wait for a long time, get lesser quality food, and pay a higher price -- not worth it. But at least the discretion to tip was still yours.

Supply & demand: As I mentioned above, when establishments try to capitalize on a special event to bring in more business, they can get carried away and exceed their capability to offer value to customers. That negative experience may actually lose them customers. The Owelympics is a two-week party. How much supply does that constitute compared to the rest of the year that regulars represent? Think it's worth the risk alienating your bread and butter? A number of businesses took the risk in Salt Lake City and rolled snake eyes. The market spoke, as it will here.

Finally, you should find out where your auto-grat is actually going: http://www.spiffle.com.... Business owners who expect customers to subsidize their poor employment practices is not on.

2/23/2010 Emily S. says:

Hm.  Never knew someone in service during the Olympics to complain about having a job.  I knew people that applied/asked for double shifts to make more $$$$.

Anyway, just wanted to let everyone know that Cafe Medina is also doing an auto 15% tip (less than what I was going to pay) and didn't remind me that it was on the bill, which would be the considerate thing to do.  Most places at least remind me that it's on the bill so that I'm not doubling up.

2/23/2010 David "Caribou Keener" L. says:

I believe automatic gratuity charges are very common in tourist areas. When I was in Hawaii last year, half of the restaurants added an automatic 20 percent gratuity charge on the bill.  Best thing is to boycott the restaurant. Service is usually crappy when there is an automatic gratuity fee on the bill.

2/23/2010 Dominique N. says:

Also had this happen at Cafe Medina!  I thought auto-gratuities were only for large groups.  My best guess is that it's so international tourists (in Vancouver for the Olympics) don't accidentally stiff the waitstaff?

2/23/2010 Melissa F. says:

has anyone noticed that Bacardi B is just on here to bash the Donnelly Group? umm.. FLAG.

Dude, I don't love that the Donnelly group owns EVERYthing in this town either- and I don't love the fact that every Donnelly pub is not the exact same replica across the city but... don't come on yelp just to hate on one business owner.

2/24/2010 Richard "rtstrategy" T. says:

Lets not go hating on Bacardi B just yet -there's a few people who have become more active in various forums recently due to the Olympic issues. Some are more negative, some more balanced and some are on a love in with the very people who are ripping them off. Hopefully we'll see a bit more balanced Yelping from the mysterious Bacardi B over time!

2/24/2010 Richard "rtstrategy" T. says:

This post violated the Yelp Terms of Service and has been removed.

2/24/2010 Alex "Bird is the Word" D. says:

Mmmm Richard you have no posts and came on just to support another acting as though you are a regular user. Bacardi B = Richard T perhaps? I am only knew here as well but I don't think people are that stupid. Also as was mentioned to me earlier Baccardi B's reviews reeks of ex employee which is a breach of Yelp's T&C.

Aside from that I am wondering how long this auto grat will stay. I am assuming they will keep it for the para-Olympics. I think it might be hard to let go especially for the chains like Cactus Club. As people have mentioned there are many places in western Europe that have a compulsory service charge. Also in the US it is not unheard of entirely. I am planning to dine at Per Se in NYC in July and noted that they have a %20 auto grat which at that place will be a big chunk of change.

2/24/2010 Rick "BC Brews" G. says:

Alex D., Consider what is behind the less-than-15% compulsory service charge in Western Europe: generally, the hospitality industry is seen as a profession where people get formal training and are better paid. Consequently, tips are not expected for doing one's job. Here, training is patchy, pay is poor, and many are only in the industry as a means to get into a profession, i.e. putting themselves through school. The service industry's employment practices here are so poor now that even people in cafes and shops have a tip jar out. (A step above from being out on the street?) This wasn't the case before. Now, tips are an expectation, not simply a reward for good service.

With respect to Per Se, at least you already know there is a 20% auto-grat and you can decide ahead of time if you want to accept that. Many of the places that have adopted auto-grats for the Olympics in Vancouver are not upfront about this, springing it on patrons when they get the bill. That's simply wrong, given the established tipping practice here. It's also wrong, given that the majority of visitors in Vancouver are from the US and other places in Canada.

As for Bacardi B, while you may question their motive, what about the substance of what has been said? I think they are valid points that need to be taken into consideration.

2/24/2010 Lee "NWdiver" N. says:

It's all for the Euros who expect it built into the bill and if its not they leave nothing. Its not that they don't tip they think the bill has the tip added into it. My $0.02% worth.

2/24/2010 Alex "Bird is the Word" D. says:

Rick - I am not sure where you have lived and worked in Western Europe but in the UK especially no one gets formal training to be a server, bartender etc in my experience, and I know quite a few. They are also not much better paid with many jobs only earning 5-7 pounds an hour in your average place.

Most people I know who worked in a range of establishments from dive bars to higher end restaurants were exactly the same people who work here. Some students, some travellers and some career hospitality workers. In Paris I did run into a lot more older servers who's career was hospitality but that was the only city.

I have seen tip jars out at Cafe's in Australia and the UK as well it is common practice in Australia where a cafe worker would still be earning $15-$18 an hour. I am against auto gratuity of 20% but understand to some extent a lower autogratuity as I know $8p/h needs to be substituted.

To be honest  a low minimum wage enables far more people to open venues. As someone who has managed a few bars and restaurants the staff costs are the toughest thing to manage. The people who are probably worse off are the patrons at restaurants. If a server has three tables of 4 to look after over 2 hours(which would be quiet) and they spend $25 a head and tip 15%. The server would be getting $16 for wage and $45 for tips of which the server might get $30. If you do the math that is $46 for two hours work. More than anyone is Western Europe or Australasia would be getting.

I understand it is not that simple but the servers here keep harping on the $8 wage when that is far from their true wage. I feel a lot more far cafe workers here at places like Blenz who barely get any tips in comparison and still have the bad hourly wage.

2/24/2010 Rick "BC Brews" G. says:

Actually, Lee, not all Europeans are oblivious to the tipping practice here. Many are well-educated, well-travelled, and research the dining practices of other countries before they visit, or their travel agent / tour operator tells them of this.

As I said, given that Europeans are in the minority in comparison to visiting North Ameircans, the "problem" is much smaller than we are being led to believe. I'm getting information that has come from actual servers, saying this hasn't been that much of a problem for them.

2/24/2010 Alex "Bird is the Word" D. says:

Rick - I talked to some girls who were servers on the weekend who worked at Earl's. Their complaint was not so much that they didn't get tips from European's and Australian's but more that these customers believed these people thought that 10% was a good tip. As you stated very accurately the majority is still visiting from North America. In fact it is highly likely that the visitors from the US for example would be tipping a few percent better.

2/24/2010 Rick "BC Brews" G. says:

Thanks for the clarification, Alex. I've certainly seen this in the UK and I'm not surprised to hear it's the same in Australia. I also saw the low-wage Aussie/Brit service workers in Hong Kong clubs/pubs, earning their travel money as they went. After the handover, they were unable to get a visa to stay and work, so have disappeared from there.

Most of my experience has been in Germany. Perhaps things are changing, especially with the increased labour mobility of the EU...

I have worked in the industry here in Vancouver, so I can see how staff costs are a matter of concern. Nevertheless, it seems to me that the ability to open up more venues by paying workers less than a living wage is not necessarily a good thing. If we have too many places offering the same thing (do we really need another sushi joint or hotdog cart), it simply becomes a race for the bottom because price is one of the few things left to compete on, which means the employees are the first to get the shaft. If the majority of one's employees can't wait to leave, that is not a very stable foundation on which to build a service-based business. What is the admin cost of a constantly revolving door?

2/24/2010 Rick "BC Brews" G. says:

You're right, Alex, there is definitely a cultural difference between Americans and Canadians when it comes to tipping. I think the Yanks are the most generous tippers.

A 10% tip here used to be considered standard for good service. Now, servers view it as an indication of dissatisfaction. Wonder what will happen when we get slapped with the HST...

2/24/2010 Alex "Bird is the Word" D. says:

Rick, I think you have hit the nail on the head. I feel lucky to have worked for so long in the industry in Australia where my skills and effort was rewarded. As a manager of decent bar or restaurant you can earn $45 -$50k p/a and workers generally take home $500-$600 after tax a week. As a result people quite often seem more content with their jobs knowing their pay cheque is guaranteed. I have never seen any evidence to show that tipping culture leads to better service as you said a contented worked is more likely to stay and I think give better service.

I agree that this city although having an astounding number of venues does have a lot double up. I think I could eat sush at a different place every day of the year! Also I agree that price is never a good thing to be competing on and is rarely good for staff, patrons or owners in the end. It will be interesting to see if the minimum wage does move much in the next few years.

As for Germany I never made it unfortunately. I have plans to travel and maybe live there especially in Berlin and Munich. You are right about the labour mobility. The low paying cafe jobs at places like Pret and Starbucks in London are filled by eastern Europeans who are willing to work for less. This I suppose is similar to the US where Mexicans fill the lower end of the labour market.

2/24/2010 Lee "NWdiver" N. says:

Rick, In the pubs and places I have been going it's all Euros and people from Ontario, maybe the Yanks won't talk to me, and I talk to everyone to see how the like the games ;)

2/24/2010 Rick "BC Brews" G. says:

Maybe your taste in places to hang out, Lee, is more European ;-).

2/24/2010 Lee "NWdiver" N. says:

No it's more West Coast, you could see from my reviews. By the way why no reviews you seem to get around?

2/24/2010 Rick "BC Brews" G. says:

Wish I could do a lot more reviews. Sadly, not enough time :(.

2/24/2010 Lee "NWdiver" N. says:

A lot more? Like one????

2/24/2010 Rick "BC Brews" G. says:

For you, Lee, I can do one :-). I'd like to do more.

2/25/2010 Dingle B. says:

Get a room.

15% is standard in USA.

Canadians are widely considered to be penny pinching dbags in my city and Seattle, where servers avoid them as much as possible (only from what I've heard).  I've always had really good interaction from servers in BC/AB as they appear to really appreciate being treated fairly.  

Roanna - my family is half acadian (n-b) and the other side from plymouth colony, 1623. Thus, you may leave  =P

2/25/2010 Jenni "Yelp is Not a Singles Bar" O. says:

Dingle - really, Canadians are cheap? Because people from all over North America tell me you're an eejit... I mean, it's not like I believe EVERYTHING I hear, but I can make an exception here...

Lee & Rick - good points on international tipping, and savvy travellers. I find European travellers are very aware of local customs. Ireland tipping was only common in high end restaurants. Tip your barman and he would be running after you to give you your change. And they were also making minimum wage (E8/h).

In terms of auto-grat if establishments *had to* implement it, why not the standard 15% (PS - guidebooks with tell you North American tipping is 10-15%)? Then if you had great service you could easily round up/tip higher based on what you think the server deserves above the standard?

2/25/2010

This Yelper's account has been closed.

2/25/2010 Alex "Bird is the Word" D. says:

Play nice children please. My understanding is that i15% in Canada and 17% in the US based on talking to people who work as servers in the US and Canada. That is specific to NYC, San Fran, Vancouver and Toronto  though and my sister who worked in San Fran actually stated that if you tip less than 17% in the US servers will probably think there is something wrong. I think the offish(oafish?), low brow comments could be applied to border hoppers on both sides. I do notice that SOME people seem to take on a Jekyll and Hyde personality when they cross borders. Play nice and tip fairly:)

2/26/2010 Rachael "Miss. Bakeaholic" T. says:

... so tonight, I went to Public House at LIbrary square.... 3 of us joined a group of 5 = 8 total.
they had ordered food before us.. and had a different server who I had been told was fabulous. The server we got afterwards was a complete fruit - lack of a better word. the bill comes... and there is a 20% grat. added on... on I did not know about it.
and from what my friends told me.. they had an 18% gratuity before hand.

Does the percentage of automatic gratuity changes as the night goes on, or if you party gets bigger? .... it was clear that the service become extremely poor. My friends had added an additional tip on top of the 18% gratuity because their previous server was super awesome.... We didn't think it was fair to have to pay the amount, so we subtracted the total from the bill because of lack of service.

I don't know if anyone has done this before, but I think that's fair, my opinion anyway.

2/26/2010 Johnson "East Van J" C. says:

Thumbs up to Smiley's [http://www.yelp.ca/biz...] is owned by the same group as Library Square - no auto-gratuity for a group of 7 people that I was with (however, we did come separately and had different tabs going - not sure if the waitresses were confused) - but there was a $10 cover when I was back for the Canada vs. Russia game since my review.  Service was surprisingly decent despite the insanity.

Thumbs down to Loose Moose [http://www.yelp.ca/biz...] - 18% auto-gratuity, but it was clearly stated on the menu and the service was actually deserving of over 15% - if it wasn't for the warning on the menu, the waitress making it uber-clear that tip was added and this thread, I would have flipped out about the charge.  Hearing about how common the practice is now, I'm starting to mellow out.

2/26/2010 Rick "BC Brews" G. says:

Johnson, just because a number of places are slapping on an auto-gratuity, I wouldn't be mellow about it. I think you ought to consider the following: http://www.spiffle.com....

2/26/2010 Rachael "Miss. Bakeaholic" T. says:

@ Johnson...

it seems very inconsistent with the Donelly hospitality management pubs.
I was at lamplighter last week. with a $5 cover, the beer prices were good and there was no automatic gratuity.

I am not impressed with the service, but that will come with my review

2/26/2010 Reena "Maple me up" M. says:

I like how in the spiffle list http://www.spiffle.com... Marc D. is now Mac D.    You should consider that name change. It suits you.

2/26/2010 Reena "Maple me up" M. says:

The "mac" part... like in CSI NY? Not inferring to McDonalds at all (I only realized after hitting reply)

2/26/2010 Thomas M. says:

Extortion at a level worse than Yelp.

2/26/2010 Johnson "East Van J" C. says:

@Barry - Maybe 'mellow' wasn't the right word, as gouging not cool.  But I think I would have flipped and raised a stink if I didn't hear about the auto-grats beforehand from others - instead of grudgingly accepting it and just avoiding the venue in the future.

@Rachel - The auto-grats seem to vary at the same place depending on server, section, client, night and/or time of day as well.  I got dragged to Loose Moose today again and there was no auto-grat imposed even with a larger group, but the lineup was significantly shorter.  I know on the list that Barry posted listed Elephant & Castle as a gouger, but i managed to dodge the auto-grat last week.