Talk Toronto

The next Toronto Mayor Thread

Category: News & Politics

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Photo of Tony F.
6/23/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

In case you didn't know, Toronto's going to be electing a new mayor this fall.  I'm hoping this thread will compile a list of positions for each candidate so we can be a little more educated when (*sigh* if) we vote.

Here are the top candidates as of right now:

Giorgio Mammoliti: http://en.wikipedia.or...
Joe Pantalone: http://en.wikipedia.or...
George Smitherman: http://en.wikipedia.or...
Rocco Rossi: http://en.wikipedia.or...
Rob Ford: http://en.wikipedia.or...
Sarah Thomson: http://en.wikipedia.or...

  1. Photo of Tony F.
    6/23/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    This article is kinda what inspired me to start this thread.

    Rob Ford's advisor is against public funding of the TTC: http://thestar.blogs.c...

    "Many bus routes, how ever (sic), would be abandoned. They're not profitable. Such is life," concedes Towhey. "The TTC should have dumped these routes long ago."

    And what about the people who need that service?

    "Well, life's tough. instead of being the only three people on a 60 passenger bus, perhaps these people will have to introduce themselves, get to know their neighbours and share a taxi," Mark Towey (Ford's policy advisor).

    In case you didn't know.. Ford's a bit of a conservative.

  2. Photo of Payam Z.
    6/24/2010 from Yelp for iPhone Payam "Gene splicer, Leucine unzipper" Z. says:

    How is this guy running for mayor?? He sounds like the worst possible candidate for Toronto.

  3. Photo of Chris P.
    6/24/2010 Chris "How quickly can I hit 4 digits?" P. says:

    Because anyone can run for mayor as long as you file the papers.

  4. Photo of Danielle P.
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    6/24/2010 from Yelp for iPhone Danielle "simplification of anything is always sensational" P. says:

    Yelp update, I'm running for mayor.

  5. Photo of Tony F.
    6/24/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    Not only that, Ford's the front runner right now.  I didn't intend to make this an all about Ford thread, though the temptation is really there.  I thought the whole "telling someone to go buy illegal drugs" would have knocked him down a peg or two, but it hasn't.  (http://news.nationalpo...)

  6. Photo of Tony F.
    6/24/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    I'll vote Danielle.

  7. Photo of Bijan V.
    6/24/2010 Bijan V. says:

    As conservative and hard ass as Rob Ford sounds, I think he's running on a decent platform to clean up unnecessary spending in city hall and bring our outrageous taxes lower. He's a councillor now and he's been pushing to remove the $50,000 budget each councillor gets for "discretionary" spending for long time now (which a good $20,000 always gets spent on a new years party since they don't know how else to spend it).

  8. Photo of Bijan V.
    6/24/2010 Bijan V. says:

    @Tony, now I'm no Ford supporter but come on I can't believe you bought into that crap! How did that article break out 2 days after the polls suggested Ford was in front? And if you read the actual transcript that puts it into context you'll see it was a targetted effort by the other candidates.

  9. Photo of Kent P.
    7/16/2010 Kent "Pat Bateman" P. says:

    Speaking of Ford: my friend made this sweet campaign ad for him:

    http://www.youtube.com...

    how can he lose now??

  10. Photo of Mozart A.
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    7/16/2010 Mozart A. says:

    @Pat: hahahahaahhahah, awesome. My favorite was "hardly any ethnical slurs".

    I had a hard time believing that this guy could have said what he said about AIDS... it's terrifying to see someone so ignorant on a job that influences directly our lives.

  11. Photo of Michelle C.
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    7/16/2010 Michelle C. says:

    I truly hope that Rob Ford's ridiculousness inspires some who wouldn't normally vote to do so, just so he isn't elected by other crazy conservatives. The only people I've seen wearing "Rob Ford" buttons were absolute nuts.

    With that being said, is anyone confident about the other candidates? I'm not feeling one particularly strong person yet. Very disappointing.

  12. Photo of Karl R.
    7/16/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    Seriously is there a none of the above option?

  13. Photo of Kent P.
    7/16/2010 Kent "Pat Bateman" P. says:

    I'm sort of confused by the support Ford has...although I like fiscal conservatism...he's a whack job. I'm guessing it's the uniformed? True- I've been to 3 of the debates so far. Rossi and Sarah were my favorites. Sarah's really hot. Rossi looks like Lex Luthor, so that's pretty cool.

  14. Photo of Tony F.
    7/16/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    Sarah Thomson was on the radio the other week and was asked about her arts policy.  She said that an investment of every dollar generates $8 of revenue when invested in the arts in the city, the host responded "well that's sure a good investment, why wouldn't you invest your entire budget in the arts then?"  And she was speechless then just kept going on about how good the arts in the city was.  The host asked her about the economics again, and she got perturbed.  

    I found it a bit funny.  I was hoping she'd be a competitive dark horse, but I'm not so sure anymore.

  15. Photo of Tony F.
    7/16/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    This was a bit funny: http://www.youtube.com...

    Rob Ford: http://www.robford.ca/
    Joe Pantalone: http://www.mayorjoe.ca/
    Rocco Rossi: http://roccorossi.com/
    George Smitherman: http://www.georgesmith.../
    Sarah Tomson: http://sarahthomson.ca

  16. Photo of John F.
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    7/16/2010 John "underpaid civil servant" F. says:

    Why do I think the names Pantalone and Mammoliti are so unfortunate?  If the former were a mobster, would they call him "Joey Pants?"  The latter sounds like it should mean "little breasts" but that is probably what is commonly called an eye translation.

    I don't feel especially impressed by any of them.  Ford is a bigoted redneck despite assurances that he is not; Smitherman wants to pull money out of thin air; and the minor ones don't have any impressive ideas.  Maybe Toronto needs a corrupt yet activist mayor along the lines of Chicago's Richie Daley, someone who can effectively battle with Queen's Park and fix the infrastructure of this city.

  17. Photo of Kent P.
    7/16/2010 Kent "Pat Bateman" P. says:

    @tony. yeah- maybe not the best- but she's the hottest. haha i made that other video you posted :)

  18. Photo of Tony F.
    7/20/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    How does a man (Ford) without a plan (look at his website and look for 'platform' or anything close to it) take the lead in the polls?!?!?

  19. Photo of Kent P.
    7/21/2010 Kent "Pat Bateman" P. says:

    he's a heavyweight

  20. Photo of Bijan V.
    7/21/2010 Bijan V. says:

    Anyone watch the debate on CP24? Looks like Ford was getting mauled from the other candidates from the excerpts they were showing haha

  21. 7/21/2010 Carolyn B. says:

    I sure do wish another candidate would get in this race.  I don't like the choices at all.

    Not that Wikipedia is a great source of accurate information, but I read the entry on Ford this morning and was reminded of all the awful, shocking things he has said and done over the past decade.  I  was even more alarmed than I was before that he's anywhere close to being a contender.  His fiscal responsibility is great, but he has violated rules in order to maintain a zero-dollar office budget, so does it really count as a good thing?  

    He scares me.

  22. Photo of Kelly O.
    7/21/2010 Kelly "Swagger Coach" O. says:

    I thought the debate was quite interesting.  From a pure personality standpoint, I liked Smitherman,  Sarah, and probably Rossi in 3rd.  Like all politicians though, they all say they are going to do the same shit...so in the end will it matter who we choose?

    Sorry for being so jaded.....

  23. Photo of Tony F.
    8/20/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    *sigh*.. ok so Ford's a homophobic, racist, wife abusing, drug taking, drunk driving liar.. yet he still leads.

  24. Photo of Nicole H.
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    8/20/2010 Nicole "the Antipodean one" H. says:

    When exactly is this election? I don't think i've lived anywhere that's had such a long lead up and campaign period. Will be glad to see the back of it, quite honestly.

  25. Photo of Karl R.
    8/20/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    Because the homophobic, racist, wife abusing, drug taking, drunk driving liar voters have formed a voting block and decided for Ford. The rest of us are going "wtf? I wouldn't hire one of these guys to bag my groceries and one of them wants to run Canada's economic center?"

  26. Photo of Lan T.
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    8/20/2010 Lan T. says:

    There's actually a twitter account called shitrobfordsays and that stuff is hilarious, until you realize he might run our city.  My favorite line in this video where he says it cyclists own fault when they get hit by cars.  

    http://www.copenhageni...

  27. Photo of Jennifer M.
    8/20/2010 Jennifer "associasian" M. says:

    http://www.fordonford.com/

  28. Photo of Roma M.
    8/20/2010 Roma M. says:

    So from what he says, -you can't ride on the road, you can't ride on the sidewalk, and if he actually gets elected, good luck using the bus.

  29. Photo of Payam Z.
    8/20/2010 Payam "Gene splicer, Leucine unzipper" Z. says:

    these candidates are horrible. I wish Miller would stay

  30. Photo of Tony F.
    8/20/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    @Roma: But they don't want buses either (which is what prompted me to start this thread).

  31. Photo of Roma M.
    8/20/2010 Roma M. says:

    @ Tony, That's what I meant (I read your points and completely agree). I guess it got lost in the words, but my point was that there would be no:
    -Bicyclists sharing the road with cars, and I suppose bike lanes would be out of the question, too.
    -Atypical bus routes.

  32. Photo of Paul S.
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    8/21/2010 from Yelp for iPhone Paul "Shop first....eat later" S. says:

    I agree with Payam!  Let's keep Miller!  What did he do thar was so horribly wrong?  At least he pushed Toronto & he's far from homophobic.

  33. Photo of Kent P.
    8/21/2010 Kent "Pat Bateman" P. says:

    Miller dropped the ball for a lot of people with the whole caving to the union after putting us through the garbage strike. Stalling of services for weeks, a smelly summer, and then we caved and paid hella more.
    TTC issues were especially bad under his mayorship (although that's probably more a correlation than a causation)
    Also, not very important but slightly annoying: a frivolous $.05 bag "tax" that isn't a tax at all which just goes to stores. It's very annoying to me. And the attempts to slow development of the Toronto City Center airport is arguably misguided. omg no bridge!

  34. Photo of Paul S.
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    8/21/2010 from Yelp for iPhone Paul "Shop first....eat later" S. says:

    Yeah, you're right Kent.  I forgot about our "summer of stench".  Then again, who doesn't bend over for these freaking unions?  They have way too much power and aren't representing ALL the people they're supposed to.

  35. Photo of John F.
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    8/22/2010 John "underpaid civil servant" F. says:

    Miller does not seem to have done much for Toronto's infrastructure.  It is falling apart.  Lots of bad streets, poor urban planning (like North York Centre), terribly inadequate rapid transit, and lack of a unified city vision.  Ford's comments on immigrants are half correct - there are too many skilled ones here, like myself, who can't find work and too many unskilled ones who are here due to Canada's overly generous refugee policy which does not ascertain whether a person can become part of the new culture before letting them in to begin with and does not allow refugees to work full time while adjuducating their cases adding to the welfare burden.  And why does Canada still build high-rise public housing in Toronto and other cities when the US long ago realized it is a disaster, even if the Canadian examples don't have the violence associated with the US ones?

    None of the mayoral candidates have a unified vision.

  36. Photo of Karl R.
    8/22/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    Canada allows in 10,000 refugees a year. That's not a very big number. That represents .03% of Canada's population. Not a demographic disaster in the making. The whole idea of a refugee system is they face death if they return to their nations. From a humanitarian perspective ascertaining their fitness to blend into Canadian culture has little to do with the intent of the program. John, you prefer we send them back to Somalia to be executed or their daughters have their clits snipped out? And it's not like we're bringing in zorgons from Mu Ceti. Every culture on earth is represented in Toronto and Canada. There cultures do a lot to help their new comers settle. If you have evidence that this is not happening or Canada's refugee program is a disaster, I'd like to see it. Further, what kind of test do we apply that ascertains their ability to become part of a new culture? As far as I can tell, the process of becoming part of the culture is no different for any culture. They work like dogs cleaning tables at the Eaton Center. They have children. Their children go to public school. Their children become Canadian. Do you believe this process has broken down or there are some cultures that can't follow this well established pattern? Is anyone coming here chucking bombs? What's the problem, exactly?

    Our system is generous. Granted. But it's a product of what it is to be Canadian. You might have noticed the universal health care thing and the Canadian attitude towards universality towards social services. You might have also noticed before the economic downturn, Canada recorded a decade of budget surpluses. We could afford it. And we can. And we recognize it's an investment. I'm damn happy to help a Tamil family get a leg up if they then open a restaurant down the street from me, enriching my life in a way I couldn't have dreamed of.

    Canada takes the view that immigrants and even those darn unfit refugees bring talent and sweat equity to Canada and makes us richer materially and culturally in the long run.

    A problem with "too many skilled workers" strikes me as problematic. One, skilled workers are smart people with mobility. Can't find a job here? Move. Toronto can't simply invent jobs out of whole cloth. I struggle to understand the problem. As well, Canada sets skills immigration based on need. Now maybe immigration is disconnected from the market place. If that's true, say, we're letting in too many chefs and software developers, again I'd like to see some data.

  37. Photo of Bijan V.
    8/22/2010 Bijan V. says:

    Karl you make some good points and I agree with you on most points.

    My only issue with this whole debate is why is was brought up in the first place. It's not like the mayors have any control in who they let into the city! This whole "issue" is stupid. Yes what Rob Ford said was harsh but that's who he is and how he talks and it's his opinion. He won't be able to enforce this if he becomes mayor anyways so why is everyone making a fuss about this?

  38. Photo of Paul S.
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    8/22/2010 from Yelp for iPhone Paul "Shop first....eat later" S. says:

    People are making a fuss about it because places like Toronto & Vancouver are where the new Canadians end up choking the whole social assistance program & some people are simply tired of their taxes going up every year to prove that Canadians have a 'generous nature'.

  39. 8/22/2010 Mr M. says:

    Yes Caada is huge, and the amount of immigrants represents a small percentage. But 90% of the immigrants end up in Toronto or Vancouver, which totally affects the social assistance available for our own citizens.

  40. Photo of Tony F.
    8/22/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    Before we blame the bears for all of our woes, maybe we should take a look at the city budget:  http://www.toronto.ca/...

    http://www.toronto.ca/...

    IMO the real question is, is the Police Services proportionate to what we should be spending vs other services?

  41. Photo of Tony F.
    8/22/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    http://www.toronto.ca/...

  42. 8/22/2010 Mr M. says:

    I am Pro-Ford right now, as he is willing to say things that the citizens of Toronto think, but just dont verbalize out loud. He best represents the everyday person.

    Its funny how immature the tactics of the Liberals are right now, like with the fordonford website, highlighting his faulty quotes in the past.

    We could highlight all the mistakes, and ridiculous votes that Smitherman has made in the past, including the E-health scandal. Also dont think Dalton endorsing Slitherman is going to help his campaign either, because now people are affiliating him with Dalton the dummy.

    I've highlighted the pros and cons of the last mayoral debate.

    http://www.yelp.ca/top...

    I totally agree with fixing the city for the taxpayers first, before letting in new immigrants. We have enough people trying to survive on social assistance, and bringing in these people, will cause longer wait times and taxes to rise.

    Also the Fair Wages Policy Act is a croc/sham. Its just lining the pockets of the friends of council, because no one else bidding on the contract can pay their staff less than $80/hr if thats the union agreed upon salary for that job. Why not enable competition? Where someone else capable of doing the job can do it for $60/hr. This council is full of wasteful spending, and from a fiscal standpoint, Ford will get that done. Although not the most polished/eloquent person.

    But we've seen where the polished politicians have taken this city, and thats both nowhere and into a deficit.

  43. 8/22/2010 Mr M. says:

    My top 3 candidates right now I'm considering are Ford, Thomson and Rossi. Would be interesting to see how a successful business executive integrates into politics (Rossi and Thomson). But I dont believe in Thomson's stance on Arts funding. I have many more things for my money to go too, rather than the arts which I rarely attend.

    Especially when the AGO is paying some of their staff in excess of 500k a year in salaries!!!

  44. Photo of Tony F.
    8/22/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    Mr M, since you're most likely on Ford's campaign team, can you tell me what his actual plans are?  I've been trying to do some analysis for months and can't seem to find anything other than him saying everyone else sucks.

  45. Photo of Tony F.
    8/22/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    2010 Budget allocation: http://www.toronto.ca/...

  46. Photo of Karl R.
    8/22/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    "Yes Caada is huge, and the amount of immigrants represents a small percentage. But 90% of the immigrants end up in Toronto or Vancouver, which totally affects the social assistance available for our own citizens."

    Are you talking about immigrants or refugees? Don't conflate the two. Immigrants generally fall under 1) family reunion 2) skills class. Skills class presumably have a job. Family reunion, the sponsor is responsible for any social service costs.

    As noted, refugees might all head for Vancouver and Toronto but that's because they can find immediate support from established ethnic communities, hence much much lower costs to the social services. And again, whatever money we lay out is not a zero sum gain. It's an investment.

  47. Photo of Kent P.
    8/22/2010 Kent "Pat Bateman" P. says:

    I like that Ford is on the council...he's funny/farcial and stirs the pot. But I think that's as far as it should go...

  48. 8/22/2010 Mr M. says:

    Actually I'm not on Ford's campaign team, because there are some aspects of his campaign I disagree with. Including his generalized comments.

    I'm also asian, and was surprised at his comments regarding asian people, "Asians work like dogs", but also understand it. Avg salary in China is $0.60 an hour. And people exploit that in Canada. I know people who work for $5/hr cash in Canada. They also stayed here beyond their time limit, so employers know that and use that to exploit them. The employees can't argue about working 10-12 hr days, else risk having no income at all and being deported.

    I also dont know if I agree with stopping funding for all parades period. Yes, if we dont have the money, why build a bigger deficit, but not sure if he's considered the correlated revenue that comes from hosting these parades like Caribana, which is attended to by as many non-Canadians who travelled to this city, as local Torontonians.

    I believe his plans based on his debates is to eliminate the Fair Wage Policy Act. Which I personally think will save the city perhaps $500 million to 1 billion. Assuming we outsource $3 billion in projects. But then it becomes bureaucratic, like the Tuggs deal. Behind closed door sessions will still exist, because of legal ramifications of not continuing a contract they promised a vendor (and eliminating the opportunity for outside bids to exist). So if they continue this crap, then I dont think much savings will occur. But this is the result of prior councils who signed contracts guaranteeing them to supposed friends.

    He also has no plans on tearing down the Gardiner Expressway (which would save us another $1 billion). Some other candidates also support this, so this isn't unique to Ford.

    Not sure about his plans on Transit Expansion. I personally like Sarah Thomson's plan on Transit Expansion the best, although it comes at a cost of $18 billion.

    Not funding the parades (this may impact businesses for sure) and the tourism industry. So not sure how I feel about this unless I really see the numbers first. But this could save the city quite a bit, since we pick up the cost of waste management, clean up, security, etc.

    My biggest thing is by opening up competition with bids, which will include garbage pick up, the city won't be held hostage any longer by the unions. Because the possibility then exists that another strike could result in their own replacement. I'm personally tired of the unions holding us hostage with garbage strikes.

    Rossi and Thomson have great corporate credentials, so like I said, would be interested to see how those translate into the political world.

  49. 8/22/2010 Mr M. says:

    Slitherman still irks me, and I really dont like his plans. Such as expanding subway to U of T Scarborough Campus (this is just a waste of money, as not many students go there compared to U of T Toronto and York University). Also he proposed tearing down all the LRT's and replacing them with subways (which would cost in the billions for infrastructure that is already in place).

    Transit wise though, we are really behind other big cities. Even Vancouver is ahead with the Sky Train. So Sarah Thomson's plan on this really looks exciting, and other mayoral candidates should consider incorporating her transit plans into their platforms.

  50. 8/22/2010 Mr M. says:

    I would also cut funding for the arts, so that they woul dbe more economical.

    Check out the salaries of the staff of the AGO. Who the heck is the guy making 945k a year?!? His pension alone must be worth at least 20 million that the city has to pay when he retires.

    http://www.fin.gov.on....

  51. Photo of Karl R.
    8/22/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    "I would also cut funding for the arts, so that they woul dbe more economical."

    People locate companies in and around certain cities (London, New York, San Fran, Seattle, Tokyo) for many reasons. For example, there's a reason why Microsoft didn't stay in New Mexico. Bill Gates couldn't lure top talent to New Mexico. People want to run companies where talent wants to move. Talent wants to move to cities with great restaurants, art scenes, music scenes, a great symphony/opera, good public transit, good sports teams, etc.

    Tourist dollars, likewise, go to such places.

    And the rich like it. The rich pay a lot in taxes. The rich like to sometimes feel they're getting a little back.

    Making a million a year to run the AGO does indeed sound excessive. However, I can't categorically say the city should not fund the arts if the arts is ultimately an investment that returns more in taxes to the city.

  52. 8/23/2010 Mr M. says:

    But 8 cents of every tax dollar already goes to the arts, and Sarah Thomson is proposing to increase that to $0.24 of every tax dollar. Thats too much for my liking. I'd maybe go to 5 cents of keep it at 8 cents.

    So how often do people go to the AGO? How often do people go see the TSO? Only thing I dont mind is the ROM, but even then I only go once every 5 years. I've only seen the toronto symphony orchestra once, and that was only because tickets were on sale for $20.

    The wealthy are the only ones who attend these events regularly, and they are also the ones making the donations, which is what makes them survive. So I dont see a problem letting the users of these places fund them. Rather than take money from the general public to fund them, if we want to fund it, we'll buy tickets to attend. Obviously when these shows/places are half empty, there's an issue regarding support.

  53. Photo of Karl R.
    8/23/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    According to the CBC the AGO has had record attendance:

    http://www.cbc.ca/arts...

    Based on the number of young people I see at the TSO, I would say it's not only for wealthy people. My point is wealthy people pay a lot in taxes. They do sometimes like to see some little kickbacks.

    According to wiki, the TSO attendance is 88%

    http://en.wikipedia.or...

    That's a 2008 figure. 88% isn't half empty.

    But again, to me there seems to be a strong correlation between cities that are financial and high tech centers and tourist draws and cities that support vibrant arts communities (among other things).

    Does Sarah Thompson really want to spend nearly 1/4 of the cities budget on the arts? And where does this current 8% figure come in? According to the budget pdf Tony posted its 0.4%. If you add in public libraries its still under 3%.

  54. Photo of Tony F.
    8/23/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    I'm not a AGO or Museum expert, but I'm pretty sure that the AGO is 1) funded by the province and has very little to do with the city 2) earns a revenue (off the top of my head I think it was a 3-1 investment to revenue ratio) 3) Not that I agree or disagree with what a CEO makes, but the CEO of AGO got a huge bonus for completing the Gehry renovations on time and under budget (which in that case IF he saved money + generated greater revenue, then I'm okay with it)  4) With some more googling, the CEO of the Smithsonian and NY MOMA make about $900k.

    Though the question of "What is the value of Arts & Culture" is valid.  I probably sit on there is merit.. but not as much as Sarah Thompson puts it.  

    Part of the problem of why we're getting an awful selection of Mayoral candidates is that we pay $150k for that postion.  Who in their right mind that is talented enough would take that job?

  55. 8/23/2010 Mr M. says:

    The 8 cents for every dollar and 26 cents or whatever it was that she said came out in the latest mayoral debate. Within the last 45 mins after the immigration debate. When they were talking about their platforms as a way to divert the question that John Tory proposed, which was a good one.

    When John Tory ran, he promised he would accomplish 8 goals. If all 8 goals were not accomplished at the end of his term, he would not run for a second term. Can anyone else vow they will not run again if they dont accomplish their goals while in office?

    And obviously no one stepped up, and said they wouldn't run again. They all said they'd let the voters decide if they did a good job or not.

    As for Mayoral salaries, I agree its not that much. Actually its a pay decrease for most of them.

    Rob Ford brought up how Smitherman gave himself a $35,000 pay increase when he was already making over $120,000 a year. And in the middle of a recession as well. Smitherman then replied, all the councillors voted for raises, it wasn't just me. Which wasn't the best response. Cmon, lead by example.

    But Smitherman, Thomson, Rossi and Ford would also face a salary decrease upon taking this position. And I'm also curious if elected Mayor, would Rob Ford step down from his position as CFO of his family business. Because although I think one can handle both if he can multi-task (the role of councillor and CFO), I dont think they can be Mayor and CFO. The job of Mayor takes more than 8 hrs a day. So would like to hear him verbalize his promise to leave the role of CFO if elected mayor. Would be extremely concerning if he works both the role of CFO and Mayor, because we require one's full, undivided attention when running this city.

  56. Photo of Tony F.
    8/23/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    It's not how much you invest.. it's how much return on investment you're getting.

  57. Photo of Kent P.
    8/23/2010 Kent "Pat Bateman" P. says:

    Mr. M you should do some yelping.

  58. Photo of Karl R.
    8/23/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    I think we can agree, based on the published budget, that 8% of the budget does not go to arts funding and it's patently impossible for anyone to devote a quarter of the city's budget to arts funding. If any candidate made even the 8% claim, I would hope other members of city council are aware enough of actual city finances to know even that figure is grossly over inflated. I would hope they would call the candidate on woefully inaccurate numbers. If they didn't, I think it just goes to show our choices, from Ford down, they really have no handle.

  59. Photo of Karl R.
    8/23/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    I'm trying to track down the source of your claim about arts funding, Mr. M. Because the figures seem so absurd, notably the 25% figure, that I question if any candidate even said it. I found this:

    http://shannonlitz.wor...

    ||First out of the gate, Joe Pantalone released his 'Cultural Capital Plan' on June 29th. The platform contains three major ideas. To increase investment from $18 per capita to $25 per capita over 5 years, to create a new 'Cultural Access Pass Program' for new Canadians that would give new local immigrants free access to major cultural offerings in the city for one year, and to better market Toronto as a screen industry leader. ||

    Per capita means per person in Toronto. Not a %. So basically they want to increase arts funding by 38% over 5 years or make it roughly 0.6% present of the budget as compared to the current 0.4%.

    Do you have a source? Because if a candidate was talking about devoting a quarter of the city's budget to the arts, I'd think that candidate was a nutbar. Surely you don't want to misrepresent a candidate's true platform and as you call for accuracy, you likewise strive for accuracy.

  60. 8/23/2010 Mr M. says:

    Check out the Tuggs Deal (which was held and approved by Council behind closed doors and did not accept any bids on it, this is the case where Councillor Ford deemed improper)

     City Council accept the revised proposal from Tuggs Incorporated, dated April 17, 2009 (the "Revised Proposal" attached as Appendix "A" to the report (April 6, 2010) from the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation and the Deputy City Manager and Chief Financial Officer) in accordance with the recommendations contained in Item PE1.3 and the following additional conditions and amendments thereto:

              a.         the Licensed Premises be expanded to include Ashbridges Bay Park;

    Tuggs existing exclusive rights to sell alcoholic beverages in Woodbine Beach park be expanded to include Ashbridges Bay Park, subject to Tuggs having obtaining any necessary permits to do so;

    f.          City Council accept Tuggs revised Base Rent proposal of $4,750,000 to the City over a revised term of twenty-one years less a day, being $1,000,000 less than the Base Rent previously approved by Council in 2007;

    the Term of the agreement be changed from twenty years to twenty-one years less a day commencing with effect from September 17, 2007 and terminating on September 16, 2028.

    A TWENTY YEAR CONTRACT THAT WASN'T OPEN TO BIDS!! There has to be some merit to this being corrupt. At least here another vendor's proposal when signing such a long term contract!

  61. 8/23/2010 Mr M. says:

    Link can be found here, regarding the 21 year deal with Tuggs, that Mayor Miller and Council approved without listening to any bids from competitors. Way to get us the best deal for the city, and to use our taxpayers money efficiently.

    http://www.toronto.ca/...

  62. Photo of Paul S.
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    8/24/2010 from Yelp for iPhone Paul "Shop first....eat later" S. says:

    I just now heard on the radio that Miller is reconsidering stepping down & run for mayor.

  63. Photo of Karl R.
    8/24/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    Oh god. I'll direct him the H Ross Perot who ran, bowed out, and then tried to get back in.

  64. Photo of Paul S.
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    8/24/2010 from Yelp for iPhone Paul "Shop first....eat later" S. says:

    Hey Karl, maybe they could get together & play chess in the park instead.

  65. Photo of Tony F.
    8/24/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    @M: I'm no fan of that deal by any means, but Ford called it "corrupt".  If that's the case, why wouldn't he go to the integrity commissioner or the police if he has any evidence?

  66. 8/24/2010 Mr M. says:

    I think he couldn't pursue it (approach integrity commissioner) due to legal reasons. If you watched the debate, when he pressed Joe Pantalone whether that deal was the best deal for the city, and whether he agreed with it. Joe responded "given the potential legal ramnifications, it was the best choice for the city to renew the deal" This implied he didn't necessarily agree with it, but given the cost of legal reasons, it was the best option they had.

    To me, this means that Tuggs had somewhere in writing, or a verbal agreement with someone that they would get the deal and have no one bidding against them. So if they opened it up for bids, then they would sue the City.

    To me its corrupt that there was a deal in place without considering options, which is what Joe Pantalones and Rob Ford's response alludes too.

    Also one cannot comment on Closed door sessions due to legal reasons as well. So if Rob Ford brought it up, the deal got cancelled as it was found improper, Tuggs wouldn't sue the city, they'd sue Rob Ford for causing the collapse and releasing details of private conversations.

  67. Photo of Tony F.
    8/24/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    That makes no sense.   If the deal was Corrupt.. illegal, then that should be brought forth legally.   You can't run around calling people or the deal corrupt, then not do something about it.  It's like calling someone a murderer then shrugging your shoulders.  That's my biggest issue with Ford, he makes things up and lies.  I can't believe anything he says.   I would love a guy like Ford on Council to keep everyone on their toes.. if he told the truth.

  68. 8/24/2010 Mr M. says:

    Well Ford suggested they release the transcripts of the closed door session and have the public determine for themselves if they think it was corrupt or not.

    This makes sense, let us determine whether you are working in our best interest.

    Mayor Miller responded, we cannot release the transcripts of closed door sessions as a result of legal ramnifications that could result of doing so. Which means there are things that were discussed that they dont want us knowing about. Hence = CORRUPT. lol

  69. 8/24/2010 Mr M. says:

    I also dont believe the latest Ipsos Reid Poll. How can Joe Pantalone be ahead of Rocco Rossi?!? If Rossi and Pantalone drop out, it could perhaps be what Thomson needs to move up to 20+% in the polls, bringing her into contention.

  70. Photo of Kent P.
    8/24/2010 Kent "Pat Bateman" P. says:

    Pantalone has name recognition. He's the deputy mayor. I've been to about half a dozen debates so far - Thomson is likable, but has trouble outside of sound-bites. Rossi is very common-sensical on most matters....perhaps just not charismatic enough to get the support of the majority of people not closely following the election.

  71. Photo of Mozart A.
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    8/24/2010 Mozart A. says:

    Man, that's absurd. How come a guy ignorant and bigoted enough to openly say that "if you don't want to get AIDS, just don't be gay" is leading the polls? This man will be representing Toronto? Holy cow.

  72. 8/24/2010 Mr M. says:

    I wouldn't classify him as ignorant or bigoted. But I'd classify him as diagnosed with "foot in mouth syndrome". A severe case of it. He says things without thinking, so he's not as polished as the other politicians.

    The other candidates can think the same, about the gays or Asians, they just dont say it. No one knows what they truly think.

    Then again, I'd rather have a mayor who actually implements something they say; rather than these polished politicians who just talk a good game and get our votes, yet do nothing in office, or nothing different from the last guy. Smitherman and Pantalone are talkers, and its on their track record (poor decisions, and doing things like everyone else).

    I think Rossi, Ford and Thomson would actually do something, and implement change. So those are my 3 candidates that I'm keeping an eye on.

  73. Photo of Mozart A.
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    8/24/2010 from Yelp for iPhone Mozart A. says:

    I'm sorry, but it's one thing when one thing or other slips... but this guy is unbelievable. You just don't say those things, PERIOD. We may never know what the other candidates really think about gays, immigrants, etc, but it's best to not know than to be sure that your mayor thinks you're a poor excuse for a human being.

  74. Photo of Paul S.
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    8/24/2010 from Yelp for iPhone Paul "Shop first....eat later" S. says:

    The gay community as large as it is should band together & make sure that Ford does not get in.   Tomorrow Jack Layton is going to publicly endorse Pantalone & that's where my vote shall go.       I agree with Mozart, bigoted & ignorant should not be leading the polls.

  75. Photo of Karl R.
    8/25/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    Ford strikes me as a latter day Mel Lastman. Mel, ultimately, was an embarrassment to the city.

    End of the day, Toronto is what we all collectively make of it, through our purchase decisions, through where we move, what businesses we try to start, etc. Economic growth is not top down. It's bottom up. A mayor's job is to stay out of the way of reasonable economic growth and properly manage the taxes that flow from economic activity. A mayor can't turn a city on the down turn into a boom town. But a mayor can severely mess up and impede the upside and make the city ill prepared to weather the next down turn.

    Arguably your civic level of government has the most influence on how happy your day is. A new express bus or traffic light that makes for an easy left turn can GREATLY impact your day. A new street light that makes you feel more secure walking from your stop to your apartment. I take the Steeles bus to work. They added a new express bus. I get a seat. I get to work quicker, which means I can leave earlier, which means I have more time to sit and drink coffee and read about the Bilderbergs. On balances it makes me not want to get an expensive new car and pay higher insurance rates. That extra money I can put towards a nicer summer vacation or buying Yelp ladies lavish dinners at Ikea.

    The tragedy then is civic election voter turn outs are the most miserable of the three levels of government. The 2003 election saw 38% voter turn out. A minority of a minority decides it for you. If I know I only have to mobilize unionized labor or angry white men to win, I really won't give a tit what you think about my stand on unionized garbage collection, immigration or homosexuals.

  76. 8/25/2010 Mr M. says:

    Great point Karl. The fact that majority of people don't vote, enables people to win by catering to specific individuals and/or unions. People should vote and make their voices heard, else they have no reason to complain when things dont go as expected.

    Even with the Gay vote not voting for Ford, I dont think that will make a difference in terms of percentage of population and percentage of voters. But I know I wont be voting for gay friendly George Smitherman, because of his fiscal policies. I can't vote for someone who gave themself a 25% pay increase in the middle of a recession, as well as approving a 25% pay increase for his fellow councillors, who are all making well over 120k before the agreed upon salary increase.

    I think that what surprised the Mayoral candidates is that the public actually agrees with Ford's comments on making Toronto a Refugee Free Zone until we get our own orders in place.

    Personally, I always give $2000-$5000 a year to charity. But now in this economy the wife got laid off. Her job got outsourced to India. We have 3 kids, and I have a mortgage, property tax, utilities, car and home insurance, and food to pay for. Do I continue to give $5000 to charity now? Obviously not, I need to get my household in order first, before I can continue my generosity. I can't continue to be generous at the sacrifice of my own family.

    Thats the point of Ford. We can't keep up our generosity to the refugees (sacrificing our own well being and services) when the taxpayers in Toronto are suffering and not getting the basic services promised to them. Once we clean it up, and once the economy improves, we can continue being the generous country/nation that we are known to be. But we wont and shouldn't do it at the expense of the taxpayers (our own families).

    On other news, Rocco Rossi has fired his campaign manager and hired a new one to help him since he's trailing in the polls. Will be interesting to see if his approach, plan, and viewpoints change under this new campaign manager.

  77. 8/25/2010 Mr M. says:

    I wish there was a person running who was fiscally responsible, but not a social idiot, haha. Not sure if I've found that yet. Closest thing to it right now is Rossi and Thomson for me; but if they're trailing so far behind, then I'll have to vote for someone who is fiscally responsible who has a chance of winning.

    I think this is where votes get skewed as well. If I wanted to get my policies implemented and tighten up the city budgets and expenses, then I'd vote for Ford. If I vote for who I think the best leader would be, then I'd be voting for Thomson or Rossi (who dont seem to have any chance of winning), So is it a wasted vote if I vote for them?

  78. Photo of Karl R.
    8/25/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    "Thats the point of Ford. We can't keep up our generosity to the refugees (sacrificing our own well being and services) when the taxpayers in Toronto are suffering and not getting the basic services promised to them. "

    But you've not even demonstrated refugees cost the city a single dime. If a mayoral candidate makes a big stink about it, I sure wish he had the facts and figures to back up his claim. If he doesn't, I don't want that gas bag being my mayor. Mel shot from the hip. We don't need Mel II.

  79. Photo of Tony F.
    8/25/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    I'm in favour of a bear tax to keep the bears away.

  80. Photo of Peter M.
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    8/25/2010 Peter "Bulletproof Soul" M. says:

    Regarding immigrants/refugees: is this even a municipal issue? Immigration policy is set at the national level.

    Does the mayor even have any power over this? If so, this can be something to have a discussion about. If not, this is a complete red herring and only pandering to ill-informed voters.

  81. 8/25/2010 Mr M. says:

    I guess the immigrant issue came from the debate when asked the question, how do you feel about the ship of immigrants coming to Toronto. Because a lot of them were identified to have known associates in Toronto, so were going to head here while their papework is being processed.

    Then each mayoral candidate discussed it.

    In terms of costs to the city, there is unemployment as a result of a flood of immigrants. Immigrants become employed at cash only jobs (construction, restaurants, retail, home daycares, nanny services, janitorial services, etc.). So they'll look for work that will pay them $5-15/hr cash (without taxes being taken out as they aren't citizens). This also affects us local citizens, because the employers are getting such a good deal with the new immigrant workers who are willing to work harder and longer hours without complaint, that they no longer have a need to hire local staff. So this promotes our unemployment, while reducing income tax revenue. They also sometimes working overtime for free, and employers save money by not having to pay benefits, pensions, etc. This is the appeal, hence you see a ton of immigrants working at restaurants in the kitchen, on construction sites, running home based daycares, etc. And a ton of those people dont have legal papers to be here.

    They will also start utilizing food banks, or at least the family they are staying with will. And they tend to live with 2-3 families in one household. They contribute to the mess of this city, and yet we dont get any revenue (Taxes) from them.

    This is just a couple of the cost implications of having more of them come to Toronto.

    My best friend works for a construction company, and 30% of their workers are illegal immigrants and they get paid $200/day cash. Keep in mind its labour intensive, but thats pretty good money, and way more than they would have made back home.

  82. 8/25/2010 Mr M. says:

    Also, they tend to use our hospitals. People may think not, but they do. Especially when they have friends with the old OHIP cards. Especially with immigrants, they can find a friend with a picture ID that closely resembles them. Most immigrants from Asia dont have blonde hair, brown hair, blue eyes, hazel eyes, differrent skin tones, freckles, etc. So it makes it a lot easier to find someone resembling them; and often at the hospitals they dont get questioned.

  83. Photo of Peter M.
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    8/25/2010 Peter "Bulletproof Soul" M. says:

    Let me rephrase the question: it is clear that the composition of the population does affect city expenditures and allocation of resources. However, it is less clear what the city can do to affect the composition of the city given the structure of national, provincial, and municipal law (especially with respect to immigration/refugee policy).

  84. 8/25/2010 Mr M. says:

    Peter I totally agree with you, there's nothing the Mayor could do to influence it, other than try to push the immigration board to ship them to saskatchewan where they are looking for workers, so they can work there in the meantime (whether legally or ilegally) while waiting for their papers to be processed.

    Actually, the only thing immigration board can likely do is just propose the idea of an economy requiring workers there, but dont think they can force them to go there.

    Either way I fully support any attempt to divert them away from Toronto due to my rationale above and the costs to the city and its resources. But also realize its not possible without help from the federal level (while attempting to not violate human rights and acts).

  85. 8/25/2010 Mr M. says:

    Was just surprised the other mayoral candidates didn't have the foresight to see that having them come to Toronto would have implications to our expenditures and resources. Instead trying to b.s. the public by saying immigrants created Toronto. Yes I agree, but would you enjoy them coming in to push us out of our own city?

    But now they are having a different stance, as they found out that those comments actually resonated with the public as polls suggested. On CP24, 680 news and TheStar over 80% of people voted on the three separate polls that they didn't want the illegal immigrants to come to Toronto. And on another day 70% of people voted that they didn't disagree with Ford's comments regarding refugees coming to Toronto.

  86. Photo of Karl R.
    8/25/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    "In terms of costs to the city, there is unemployment as a result of a flood of immigrants"

    First, you're back to conflating refugees with immigrants. Ford claimed Toronto should be a refugee free zone. As discussed above, skills based immigrants tend to have a job already or they're family class and the family is responsible for their support. Is not the federal government in hoc for refugee support needs? They don't pass that on to cities.

    "Immigrants become employed at cash only jobs (construction, restaurants, retail, home daycares, nanny services, janitorial services, etc.). So they'll look for work that will pay them $5-15/hr cash (without taxes being taken out as they aren't citizens)."

    So they take low wages and lower the costs of services you and I use? That's bad how?

    "This also affects us local citizens, because the employers are getting such a good deal with the new immigrant workers who are willing to work harder and longer hours without complaint, that they no longer have a need to hire local staff. "

    Weren't you complaining above if someone is willing to work at a lower wage than one mandated by a city fair wage law, they should be able to? So what's the problem now? Last time I checked, these immigrants weren't trying to get jobs as copy writers or web developers. They were cleaning tables in food court and driving taxis. Do you know many Canadian born busting their gut to land a job cleaning toilets at the Eaton Center?

    "They will also start utilizing food banks, or at least the family they are staying with will. And they tend to live with 2-3 families in one household. They contribute to the mess of this city, and yet we dont get any revenue (Taxes) from them. "

    Last person I saw messing the city was a young white Canadian born male tossing his Tims cup onto the street. Are refugees and immigrants dirtier as a whole? Do they use foodbanks more? Other than a broadly drawn stereotype, what evidence? What numbers? And as I noted above, immigrants and refugees are an investment. I don't give AMZN my money for charity purposes. I want to see a payday down the road. You have to spend money to make money. God forbid we put a moratorium on Vietnamese refugees in the 1980s, claiming Toronto was full. Not only have these people done well for themselves but they're forging bonds with the emerging Vietnamese economy, giving Canada a brilliant entry into that market.

  87. Photo of Karl R.
    8/25/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    And sure even people who work under the table pay taxes. Every time they buy something they're paying sales tax. Every time they pay rent, they help a landlord pay property tax. Since we're talking costs to the city, what actual taxes are they not paying into the city? The only taxes I pay to the city are property tax and a Toronto license plate tax. There's also a land transfer tax and things like on street parking fees. That's pretty much it for tax revenue for cities from people living in the city. So as far as I can tell, if they pay rent, they pay their fair share of tax to the city.

  88. 8/25/2010 Mr M. says:

    Weren't you complaining above if someone is willing to work at a lower wage than one mandated by a city fair wage law, they should be able to? So what's the problem now?

    There's a difference between grossly overpaying for a job with a salary agreed upon by a union, for an employee who is not part of a union. You dont think theres a difference between correcting someone being paid $80/hr to $60/hr? With both employees being taxpaying citizens. And someone who is being paid $15/hr being replaced with someone who is not a tax paying citizen at $10/hr?

    I think there is a huge difference, one is that they are grossly overpaying those jobs, and elimiinating competition. Even at $40/hr, you are making $80, 0000 a year.

    The other difference being, I dont support putting taxpaying citizens in the unemployment line for non-taxpaying citizens. You may disagree, I dunno.

    How are they paying rent when they are living with family? You may not see the houses with 2-3 families in each house. There are a ton of them in Scarborough. Maybe you should go take a look, and let us know if you like living beside them.

  89. 8/25/2010 Mr M. says:

    Also, when they spend money they are not always paying taxes. Go to an asian mall or asian grocery store or bakery or electronics store. Its cash deals, no tax. Even asian restaurants if you speaak the dialect, they won't charge you tax. It benefits the consumer and benefits the store owner.

    Business owners also tend to make deals with importers/exporters and dont track inventory for revenue purposes. Or buy items in bulk, so they cant be measured for individual sales.

    There are also people who pay people who work at the docks to steal a couple of items from their cargo shipments, and resell them for cash. Man Karl, your glasses may need some cleaning, but welcome to reality. The guy I used to buy suits from in Thornhill was a Jewish guy who would get a couple suits from every shipment. He'd pay the workers who unload the cargo. Designer suits from Italy too, and sold them out of his basement for cash (and yes, no tax). Some of his cutomers also included people with Porsche's, as the deal was a phenomenal one. So yes in those cases, I also contributed to no tax revenue for the city. But reality is, all money spent in this city isn't being taxed for the benefit of this city.

    How many times have you gone to a mom and pop pizza shop, they quote you a price, and dont punch it into the register. In these instances, they are collecting the tax, but keeping it as profit. These situations I always ask for a receipt, and they get kind of mad, but oh well.

  90. Photo of Karl R.
    8/25/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    "You dont think theres a difference between correcting someone being paid $80/hr to $60/hr? With both employees being taxpaying citizens. And someone who is being paid $15/hr being replaced with someone who is not a tax paying citizen at $10/hr? "

    No. I don't see a difference. In both cases someone is able to do that job better for less money. That's the way the free market works.

    How many low paid service jobs are being filled by under the table workers in Toronto, anyway? Under the table work has always happened and it always will. You can get situations like Italy where a huge % of the economy is off the books and it affects the whole economy. If you think refugees and immigrants are distorting the balance to the point where Toronto, Ontario, or Canada are at risk of seeing the tax base adversely affected, again, I'd like to see evidence. How many of these under the table workers are refugees? The assumption is a refugee can't legally work?  Immigrants, of course, have a legal right to work in Canada. They can legally make a minimum wage. Don't refugees, after a time, get a work permit allowing them to earn support money while their case is being heard? Surely, there are many illegals in Canada but that's a whole other topic. We are dealing with people who have a legal right to be in Canada.

    "The other difference being, I dont support putting taxpaying citizens in the unemployment line for non-taxpaying citizens. You may disagree, I dunno."

    Again, I need to ask which taxpaying citizens are being put in the unemployment line because they were screwed out of a low paying, dirty service job?

    "How are they paying rent when they are living with family?"

    By either actually contributing a share to the rent or sweat equity that allows the primary rent payer the ability to work. They cook, grocery shop, etc.

    "Maybe you should go take a look, and let us know if you like living beside them."

    What I do I care how people live behind their own doors?

  91. Photo of Tony F.
    8/25/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    Mr M.. are you sure you're not Rob Ford?

    "They will also start utilizing food banks."

    "You may not see the houses with 2-3 families in each house. There are a ton of them in Scarborough."

    "There are also people who pay people who work at the docks to steal a couple of items from their cargo shipments, and resell them for cash."

    "The guy I used to buy suits from in Thornhill was a Jewish guy who would get a couple suits from every shipment...Sold them out his basement"

    "Either way I fully support any attempt to divert them away from Toronto "

    "They will also start utilizing food banks, or at least the family they are staying with will."

    "Would you enjoy them coming in to push us out of our own city?"

    "there is unemployment as a result of a flood of immigrants."

    "Also, they tend to use our hospitals. People may think not, but they do."

    "Especially with immigrants, they can find a friend with a picture ID that closely resembles them. "

    "Asians work like dogs", but also understand it. Avg salary in China is $0.60 an hour. And people exploit that in Canada.

    "..other candidates can think the same, about the gays or Asians, they just dont say it."

    I seriously can't tell if you're being serious or not.. but it's fricking hilarious.

  92. 8/25/2010 Mr M. says:

    I guess I just know a lot of scammers, hahaha.

  93. Photo of Peter M.
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    8/25/2010 Peter "Bulletproof Soul" M. says:

    @MM, as an immigrant, I am not going to get caught up in characterizations of how often I use food banks or hospital services.

    I just don't understand, if the mayor has no legal power over who lives in the city, why is this a campaign issue aside from polarizing people.

    No need to respond. I just get frustrated when people get distracted by blinking lights and bright colo(u)rs.

  94. Photo of Mozart A.
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    8/25/2010 from Yelp for iPhone Mozart A. says:

    Can someone explain to me how I am pushing people out of Toronto?

  95. Photo of Karl R.
    8/26/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    Do food banks even get much in the way of city funding? Daily bread's site indicates their funding is a mix of private and corporate donations. They may get some perks from the city, like a break in property tax, but that's a sunk cost, whether one person is using the food bank or 100,000. Even if we had no refugees coming to Toronto, we'd still have working poor using the food banks.

    To sum up:

    Working under the table: this doesn't cost the city revenue. Refugees are not the only people working under the table. There will always be an underground economy. Are refugees making a statistical difference? Are they pushing the underground to a point where it's affecting the Canadian economy?

    If the low wages refugees accept help a business survive when it would not normally survive, we have a business around paying taxes to the city.

    Refugees move to big cities because they already have a built in support network. Sending a tamil family to Moose Jaw may end up costing MORE in services as there are no cultural based charity organizations funded by private money and private sweat equity to settle the people.

    Refugees are a necessary humanitarian act.

    Any money we spend on refugees and immigrants are an investment. They bring new/needed skills, take jobs for low pay no one wants, they open great restaurants. Imagine if we said "Toronto is full" to the Vietnamese boat people of the 1980s? Is Toronto poorer because of them? Or richer?

    Ford claims:

    "We can't even take care of our own 2.5 million," he said. "We should take care of the people we have now before bringing in more." Several audience members applauded.

    What does he mean we can't take care of 2.5 million people? I feel reasonably taken care of. There are things we can certainly do in terms of cuts long before we have to look at turning Toronto into a refugee free zone. We're not bringing in more people. We've created a city where people see opportunity. That's bad how?

    Ford makes some hand waving claims but does not seem to back them with precise definitions or stats. He plays to a general sentiment and stereotypes. And he wants to represent all of Toronto as mayor?

  96. Photo of Tony F.
    8/26/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    Damn Ogdenvillians and my fear of xylophones.

  97. Photo of Karl R.
    8/26/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    I've thought a lot about what Ford had to say and if you strip away the vilifying of refugees as unwanted additions to Toronto, he does have a point if you un-focus your eyes a bit. The success of a lot of Federal government policies relies on Toronto working. We attract and manage foreign investment. We help Canada be a shining example of enlightened approaches to dealing with refugees. We incubate new technology. We play host to things like the G20. But the federal government has, for decades, treated Toronto like a political liability. A vote won in Toronto is two lost votes in rural Ontario or Alberta. If the Federal government expects Toronto to keep carrying the load and making federal policy work, they could start paying for things.

    This isn't purely a Toronto thing, mind you. Vancouver, Calgary, and Edmonton also help Federal end goals. These cities too are the economic engines of Canada but get treated nearly as worse.

  98. 8/27/2010 Mr M. says:

    So people claimed since Ford said the contract was corrupt, that he should bring it to the proper authorities. But what does that accomplish? Look at the article below, where the provincial party was found to award insider contracts.

    http://toronto.ctv.ca/...

    "Public accounts show the Liberal caucus services fund paid $100,000 to Liberal party vice-president Christine McMillan and $400,000 to polling firm Pollara, whose former president, Don Guy, is Premier Dalton McGuinty's campaign manager."

    "Another consulting firm, Arrow Communications, whose president Marcel Wider co-ordinates Liberal-friendly campaign ads, received $223,000 from the fund last year."

    So it was determined that they were guilty of awarding contracts to insiders. Including people who fund and support their campaigns (like the owner of Tuggs who donates to Councillor Busin). Now what happens? Nothing. Contracts are in place, and people already got paid. There's no reprimand, no slap on the wrists. Information just goes public and the provincial government continues as if this didn't happen.

    Anyways, this is happening on the Provincial, Federal, Municipal Levels. But point is, only one person has publicly stated that this must stop. And that's Rob Ford.

    What do you people expect to happen if he even reported it to the Integrity Commissioner? They say you're right, it was wrong. But legally we already signed our 20 year deal, so we are bound to the terms of the contract. Nothing would happen, just like how nothing happened once the provincial government was found guilty of the same infractions.

  99. Photo of Kent P.
    8/27/2010 Kent "Pat Bateman" P. says:

    Mr. M, did you join yelp just yelp about Rob Ford? Sort of annoying. Sort of spammy.

  100. Photo of Kent P.
    8/27/2010 Kent "Pat Bateman" P. says:

    my bad forgot to end msg with stfu

  101. 8/27/2010 Mr M. says:

    Nope, I joined to have intellectual conversations. So politics I find to be intellectually stimulating. And Karl has done an outstanding job bringing up points to the contrary of some of mine, which were valid. and sometimes made me sway from my preconceived notions.

    But I also find politics more intellectually stimulating than conversations about, "Would you bring your own chopsticks?",  "Strange things I did as a kid", etc.

    I apologize if our discussions have gone over your head.

  102. 8/27/2010 Mr M. says:

    Guess I shouldn't have expected much from someone with the following comments:

    "Rossi and Sarah were my favorites. Sarah's really hot. Rossi looks like Lex Luthor, " hahaha.

  103. Photo of Lan T.
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    • 166 reviews
    8/27/2010 Lan T. says:

    I too smell spam, I don't like that stuff on my dinner plate any more than I like it here.

  104. Photo of Bijan V.
    8/27/2010 Bijan V. says:

    I don't find what Mr M. is saying to be spam at all.. I think he actually stirred the pot here a bit and there's been a pretty good debate going on where I've learned quite a bit of information.

    I'm still undecided but I'm not completely against voting for Ford as many are on here.

  105. Photo of Mozart A.
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    8/27/2010 Mozart A. says:

    I am personally offended by the long list of stereotypes Mr. M has of me. I know lots of them and not a single one depends on food banks, steals things at the docks or fakes IDs.

    That's why just realizing that the Mayor of the city I live in really wanted some of us taxpayers to pack up and leave just because we were not born here turns my stomach and ruins my day, really.

  106. Photo of Elliott M.
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    8/27/2010 Elliott M. says:

    Man, I'd really love to get in here, but I have to confess I'm strangely bored by municipal politics.  I say 'strangely' because I'm well aware they're the domain most likely to affect my day-to-day life, as Karl mentioned.  And yet I feel no compulsion to read much on the candidates, much less pick one to lead the city.

    There's been a lot of complaining about the Miller years, but honestly, I'm not even sure what to be mad about.  "Spending at City Hall is out of control!"  Is it?  What's "out of control", specifically?  And how might this have changed my world?  This may sound incredibly naive, but at this point, I feel no legitimate outrage whatsoever, barring the TTC.  And that problem seems so deep-rooted and institutional, it's gonna take much more than a mayor change to accomplish anything significant.

    I think altogether, folks place too much weight on the role of the mayor anyways, be it fears OR aspirations.  They are not dictators or kings, just senior public workers bound by an opposing council who are monitoring their every move.  They can't do everything, or maybe ANYTHING, that they really want to.  I remember similar hysteria when Harper was about to be elected ("He's going ban abortion", "He's going to Christianize the country", etc), as if he could simply accomplish these things by whim alone.  I would encourage everyone not to overaggrandize what is really just another government job.

    And to echo Karl once more, I think it's much more valuable and productive to engage your community directly, as a consumer and volunteer, rather than petitioning City Hall for change.  It's unavoidable for some issues, but in my (cynical) experience, politics is more about making publicity than making a difference.  Anyone hitching their dreams to a politician is heading straight for disappointment, every fucking time.

  107. 8/30/2010 Mr M. says:

    Elliot, I think you are right about hitching our dreams to a politician with disappointment closely following every time. We are always disappointed, regardless of who's in power.

    Interesting announcement today by Rossi's Camp!

    Rossi said announced Monday morning that, if elected Oct. 25, he will ask the Ontario government to pass the legislation enabling recall votes for Toronto. Toronto needs recall legislation so disgruntled voters can fire their mayor or councillors before the end of their four-year-term, says mayoral candidate Rocco Rossi.

    He's actually got Kinsella coming on board, which is super huge!

    Rob Ford is no good on the social issues; George Smitherman is not top-of-mind when it comes to fiscal discipline. Rossi is fiscally conservative and socially progressive.

    My preference for Mayoral Candidates (top 3) now shifts to the following sequence: Rossi, Ford then Thomson.

    I doubted Rossi's innovation before and ability to stand out, or come up with a unique platform, but he's now proven me wrong. Plus, his idea is really good because I dont want Ford in power for more than 2 yrs. I like the fact Ford has brought fiscal responsibility to the forefront, which is why people connect to him, but thats about it. I dont want him to be the face of the city. Just the face of change and let someone else who's more social, outgoing, personable and fluent be the face of the city after the wheels of change have gotten rolling.

    My main issue is fiscal responsibility, and the Liberals time and time again dont make it a priority. So hope Rossi keeps the momentum going, and will be interested to see the polls in 1 month's time to see if he moves up.

  108. 8/30/2010 Mr M. says:

    Being an immigrant myself who came to Canada, studied university here, then worked here; I understand what its like for immigrants coming to this country.

    No where was it stated that the Mayor, or any Mayoral Candidates want to get rid of taxpaying immigrants. Ford's comments where that he'd like to focus on fixing the city for the 2.5 million residents of Toronto first, before trying to help out others. He wanted to put the sole focus on reviving our city, economy and resources first.

    Like how can Toronto not be a partner in building the subway to the airport from downtown Toronto? No mayoral candidate brought this up, but every major city has a subway to the airport (Chicago, San Francisco, London, etc.) Instead we tell individual contractors, you are welcome to build it yourself if you like, and the revenues are yours. This is something Toronto should have done and been responsible for. Anyways the above comment is off topic from the issues at hand, but highlight the fact that our city needs innovation and to focus on building the resources we need to make our economy boom.

  109. Photo of Karl R.
    8/30/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    You raise an interesting point Mr. M. Lots of cities have privately owned subway lines and train lines. For example many of Seoul's subway lines are run by private companies. Japan's train system is privately owned. Now both, I'm sure, get a grant from the government. Population density might not be high enough to make it a go in Toronto, however.

    The Ontario solution would probably be build it with public money and then sell it off to balance the books.

  110. Photo of Tony F.
    8/30/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    @Mr M.:  Not to be "political", but which party in Canadian history has balanced the books more, and who have run the greatest deficits?  I know there's a perception for one of them, but they have historically done opposite to what you may expect.  As for the mayor, there's a reason why there shouldn't be direct political affiliations.

  111. Photo of Vivek S.
    9/10/2010 Vivek "When I wake up imma be yelping" S. says:

    Anybody remember this guy?  The Chinese Warren Buffett?  He's the 40th candidate in the T.O. Mayoral race.

    http://www.thestar.com...

  112. Photo of Tony F.
    9/10/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    Wanna know how your councillors spent your money?  http://app.toronto.ca/...

    You can look through all their reciepts.

  113. Photo of Karl R.
    9/10/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    That's a completely awesome link, Tony. I love you're so up on city politics. Who are you going to vote for, Tony? Whoever you vote for, I will give your opinion considerable weight in my decision. Unless it's Smitherman :)

  114. Photo of Tony F.
    9/10/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    Thanks Karl... It's a bit of a struggle for me for the Mayoral candidates as I'm a centrist at heart and no one really represents me that well.  Smitherman is supposed to, but I actually have a semi-personal beef with him.  Long story short, he's not the nicest guy, but we do share some similar policy ideas.  

    So far.. we know who I'm not voting for.  I love Ford's math the other day.. We saved $2M in privatizing garbage pickup in Etobicoke (which isn't exactly true -- the city did save on salary and benefit costs), in his current forecast by privatizing garbage pickup for all of Toronto,  the rest of toronto is about 8 times bigger so therefore we'll save $16M.  

    Same goes for Sarah Thompson math.  For every $1 you invest in the arts you get $8 on return of invesetment.  Well that seems pretty good.. why don't I just invest my entire city budget then?  That kind of math scares me.

    Ultimately I'd like one of the candidates to actually touch the real issue, that big elephant no one wants to get near, the budget of our police services and the operating cost of the TTC.  Those two combined = more than 25% of the budget.  25% of all the money goes to 2 services (then fire service which represents 5%).  We can talk about the culture of entitlement of the councillor's, immigrants, creating jobs, yadda yadda.. but really this city has one giant monster of an issue with just those two services.  Unfortunately, it's not a winning platform to talk about those two things.. so therefore, lets bring anything and everything else up, like garbage service which is what percentage of the budget?!?!

  115. Photo of Karl R.
    9/10/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    I'm thinking a) Rossi as the lesser of 3 evils b) crazy third party candidate guy... maybe that ponzi scheme guy Vivek just posted about. I might not like any of the real contenders but ultimately I don't want to contribute to a further slide in voter turn out. Like I said above, when a politician knows he just has to move a minority of a minority to win, he's only got to appeal to the haters, the hardcore unionists, the unrestrained developers, the envirofreaks, whatever.

  116. Photo of Bijan V.
    9/20/2010 Bijan V. says:

    Not sure if anyone saw the latest polls today... looks like Ford is way out in front now with ~46% - about 24% ahead of the next candidate Smitherman!

    Joe Pantalone jumped up to 17% as well with Rocco Rossi falling to 9.7% which is too bad as Rossi seemed to me like he could be a decent candidate.

  117. Photo of Karl R.
    9/20/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    I dumped Rossi after he went on about his tunnel idea. Pantalone is next up.

  118. Photo of Karl R.
    9/20/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    Oh. Anyone see their sitting councilor out campaigning? I haven't see mine, John Filion, yet. Anyone notice this is a job for life?

    When was the last time an incumbent lost? Other than waking up with a dead boy next to you, what does it take to get rid of these dinosaurs?

  119. 9/20/2010 Mr M. says:

    Karl, you can't give up on Rossi yet! hahaha. I actually prefer Rossi the most. But if he has no chance in heck of winning, then I'll go to Ford next. I am actually really surprised at the latest Poll. Does this mean that Pantalone took on a lot of Smitherman's previous poll supporters? Seems that way.

    it could be due to the unions. How the unions have vowed to back Pantalone, and had Pantalone walk in their parade with them. How he vowed to support the unions, probably one of the main reasons I wont vote for him. We need to move forward, not go back in time where the unions ruled all.

  120. 9/20/2010 Mr M. says:

    Its funny though, I have a pick for best candidate, and a second pick for pending on how others vote  in case my pick has no chance of winning, then I want to support my second pick (so I'm wondering if these polls are biased or not). Because are they only done because people think Ford is out front, they join the bandwagon? Or because Rossi is so far out, that Ford's votes wont be split to him and Rossi; like how Smitherman's split between him and Pantalone.

  121. Photo of Tony F.
    10/14/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    Actually, I think Rossi dropping out will help Ford.  All I can say is, no matter who wins (yes I'm excluding Joe Pops) this town is about to get a lot meaner.

  122. Photo of Laura C.
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    10/25/2010 Laura "Lala" C. says:

    The votes are in - what do you all think??

    I didn't vote for Ford, but I just hope he completes what he promises any how. Just not thrilled about him representing Toronto.
    Even if he wants to do something radical, he still needs the votes of his council.

    Change is usually good right?
    Barney: Ted, I know you love classic stuff no one cares about, but I'm gonna give you four words to live by: New Is Always Better.
    Ted: New is always better?
    Barney: Ted, you know who's a million times hotter than the hottest girl I've ever slept with? Her okay-looking friend I haven't seen naked. Why? Because new is always better.

  123. Photo of Chris P.
    10/25/2010 Chris "How quickly can I hit 4 digits?" P. says:

    I'm more interested to see how council fights it out. With so many upsets and open ridings it will be interesting to watch over the next few months to see how everyone gains their footings.

  124. Photo of Rafi N.
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    10/25/2010 Rafi "The owl mocked the tit for having large eyes" N. says:

    I wonder if Ford will lose weight like Miller did? Becoming mayor, may save/extend Ford's life.

  125. Photo of Karl R.
    10/25/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    What did Ford say in his acceptance speech about what we should be doing about the Hutu problem?

  126. Photo of Karl R.
    10/25/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    I was going to vote for Smitherman at the last minute because I wanted to send a response to the haters on that Tamil station. I didn't realize he was a gay man, married to a same sex partner, and had an adopted child. Could you imagine someone running for American politics with that back story and it largely NOT being the big story?

    But I stuck to my guns and I voted for the Legalize It candidate because frankly none of those blow hard idiots deserved my vote.

  127. Photo of Bijan V.
    10/25/2010 Bijan V. says:

    I'm with your Karl! People are WAAYY overreacting to Ford winning by the way (i.e. I've seen over 6 people now with plans on moving out of the city with one person actually buying his flight ticket tonight)... Ford still needs the councils support and he'll realize implement his promises isn't going to be as easy as just talking about them!

    "One of those taxes Ford promised to eliminate is the two-year-old Municipal Land Transfer Tax. He said he would slash it within his first year in office. Now, he says he won't get rid of it until 2012, blaming next year's provincial election for the delay.

    Ford's own policy advisor and real estate experts say he doesn't have to wait for the province to act. The tax brings in $200 million a year for the city."

    Hmm we'll see... I have a feeling we're going to look back at this in 4 years and realized not much has changed and people went apeshit for nothing

  128. Photo of Mariko M.
    10/25/2010 Mariko "Performance Before Competence" M. says:

    ^
    Agreed.

    -----------------------
    At the end of the day we have to remember that municipal politicians are not that powerful in the grand scheme of things.

  129. Photo of Payam Z.
    10/25/2010 from Yelp for iPhone Payam "Gene splicer, Leucine unzipper" Z. says:

    I'm a little frightened.
    I feel like he's the kind of person who would make things difficult for people who have not seen eye to eye with him while he was on council.
    Regardless of how much power he will have, I'm sorry this is what Toronto stands for

  130. Photo of Val G.
    10/25/2010 Val "neutered's cuter" G. says:

    Yes, they aren't that powerful until they turn the bike lanes into comfort lanes and pulverize you in their Canyonero. Here's hoping he chokes later tonight on what's sure to be a celebratory hamburger.

  131. Photo of Mariko M.
    10/26/2010 Mariko "Performance Before Competence" M. says:

    It's all speculation.
    Only time will tell, really.

  132. Photo of Karl R.
    10/26/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    Here's a quick overview of what the mayor really does.

    http://lawiscool.com/2...

    From the city website:

    http://www.toronto.ca/...

    The mayor votes to break a tie. His role is largely ceremonial. He  can use his bully pulpit to suggest direction council should be going. He can use his popularity as the symbolic head of 2 million voters to get the province to do something or another.

    He can't appoint the heads of stuff that makes our day to day lives good or bad: police, ttc, garbage, etc.

    The real choice is voting for a city councilor who represents your politics the best and will vote for things like taxes, who to award garbage contracts to (union or private?), etc. that match up with your ideas.

  133. Photo of Karl R.
    10/26/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    And  you're probably wondering how your crazy third party guy did:

    http://crazythirdparty...

  134. Photo of Laura C.
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    10/26/2010 Laura "Lala" C. says:

    I wonder if there is a place that shows how each Ward voted, for mayor

  135. Photo of Peter M.
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    10/26/2010 Peter "Bulletproof Soul" M. says:

    +1 for Laura's question. I looked at the Toronto website and you can get ward data for each ward-level election but not mayor. I am curious if this was a suburbs versus the city divide (as everyone assumes it was).

    http://www.toronto.ca/...

  136. Photo of Andre D.
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    10/26/2010 Andre D. says:

    Over 50% voter turnout which is a record.  Half of those people voted for Ford.   I don't know if it was the message so much.  I think it boils down to the electorate.  As I've posted on twitter on more than one occassion and will stand by it, if you remember Jacques Parizeau after the referendum election, and was repeated by another outside politicians, he blamed the immigrants.  Partially he is correct. Furthermore Ford base is non post-secondary educated.  Toronto wants to be so much like the US and they think that Teabagger politics is the answer.  The message was simple and they weren't complicated.  Because of the decision of  25% of Toronto's population, that you're going to suffer 4 years of ass backwards politics when Calgary is progressive and moving forward.  I'm embarrassed and disgusted to say this is what my Toronto has succumbed to.

  137. Photo of Karl R.
    10/26/2010 Karl "Kid Don Cornelius" R. says:

    I think Ford is in line with what happened at the council level (2 or 3 incumbent councilors got tossed out) and lots of cities around ontario saw incumbent mayors tossed out. Voters are demanding change. I think voters for Ford largely ignored his wilder ideas and just view him as a much needed enema for city council. Both Obama and the Tea Party count their success on people who just wanting change and don't listen too closely to the actual message. I think why did I change my pattern of voting for the liberals and NDP to voting for Mike Harris back in the mid-1990s? He was the only candidate actually talking about lowering taxes and spending less. The libs and NDP were talking about the same old failed ideas.

    Ford looks like a frumped up, low life blow hard. I pity anyone that has to have him as a boss. Or a husband. But then Patton probably wasn't a great guy to be around. But he got the job done. So maybe city council really does need a bully in the bully pulpit. These were the idiots that brought in a Toronto land transfer tax and a Toronto license plate tax. Gotta pay those generous union raises in an economic down turn. These are the ineffectual idiots that couldn't keep the Ontario government to stick to its promise to fund the Transit City plan. These are the idiots that think we need a 12 person committee to determine what and where a guy with a food cart can operate. That selling Korean food on the streets is just a little too "out there" and we need an expensive 2 year trial program to discover what we could discover by just seeing what other cities do.

    So, ah, I'm taking a wait and see attitude. 98% of the crap he claimed he can do he doesn't have the power. We might just be in for an entertaining 4 years with Mel Lastman in short pants.

  138. Photo of Tony F.
    10/26/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    Ahh.. this is going to be a fun 4 years...  http://www.youtube.com...
    from documentary "Hogtown: The Politics of Policing"

  139. Photo of Tony F.
    10/26/2010 Tony "tells the truth, even when I lie" F. says:

    Someone from his camp stated that the reduction in council will probably not happen in his 1st term.  First promise broken within 24 hrs of getting elected?  That's gotta be some kind of record?

  140. Photo of Payam Z.
    10/26/2010 from Yelp for iPhone Payam "Gene splicer, Leucine unzipper" Z. says:

    Canyonerrrrooooooooo ooooooh

  141. Photo of Mariko M.
    10/27/2010 Mariko "Performance Before Competence" M. says:

    Before selling your homes and buying one-way tickets out of Toronto, relax.
    As mentioned a couple of times now, the mayor does not have that much power.

    Broken promises from a politician? Are we originally from Shangri-La?

    The nice thing about Ford's victory is that it has encouraged discussion about municipal politics by young people. Maybe some of those young people are just jumping on the bandwagon so that they can delude themselves into thinking that they are leftist and therefore compassionate, understanding, open etc.... who knows.

    Okay, now on to my coffee.

  142. Photo of Peter M.
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    10/28/2010 Peter "Bulletproof Soul" M. says:

    FYI: http://torontoist.com/...

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